Are you with Abortion?

[chafic]

Originally Posted by Salome

This has been debated long in this thread, "this distinct organism" is not even recognized by the state as a human being, therefore the decision above it shall concern the parents only.

Many states still perform executions, which is an act of killing (or a crime); Governments' regulations are usually closer to pragmatism than to idealism. I don't think state regulations could be taken as a reference here.

Originally Posted by Salome

I hope you realized in my post the terms "cells" and "due time". Few cells are not a human being, even if we have the whole universe in a grain of sand. I said it earlier, there shall be a time limit before abortion shall be allowed.

Actually at the moment of fertilization (fusion of gametes) you have a new distinct (not independent) organism, with a well defined genome; It only depends on the female's body for nutrition. In terms of species, that fetus is a human being in the course of development.
Now I don't understand your definition of a human being; Probably your definition is related to the organism's ability of perception, feeling, its physical development?

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Salome

I just noticed this part.

I think teenage girls are getting ever b*tchier today. They start an early sexual life, although they are not obliged to like in the middle ages or in retarded societies.

But dont confuse here the issues of being pro-choice and being b*tchy. Being pro-choice will not make one b*tchy. Rather the other way round.

It's not starting an early sexual life that makes you that thing, you can start your sexual life whenever you are capable of doing so i guess; but rather being tossed around from one dude to another like a shoe thrown by a Lebanese mother at her naughty child (which is the case with many "ladies" these days). It is during the tossing process that scums would most likely need to go throught abortion. Those are the ones who push for it more than anyone else; it's that "kind" (or should i say "quality") that's so eager to start the killing to get away with their filth.

[sarhay]

Originally Posted by Salome

I could not resist but to comment on this paragraph of yours! Salome, what is extreme to you in this matter? is it the response that does not fit within your periphery or is it the chore that vibrate within moral standards? You see the feminist movement in western hemisphere was rightfully pursuing equality in treatment and self-determination for woman. However, when they start to tackle issues that deal with personal morla standards and belief like the one at hand then things start to become reactionary with no future direction.

Tayyib, let me answer you this way, biologically, conception/fertilization occurs on average two weeks before the next menstrual cycle, this means on average the newly created organism has few days, which are sufficient enough to produce multi millions of different kinds of cells. Also, pregnancy signs do not appear right after intercourse, usually takes weeks, rarely you hear people doing abortion after few days of conception.
Salome, the criteria for qualifying a human being is solely dictated by what scientific endeavours conclude and does not care about our circumstantial preferences!!! So,Salome if millions and millions of cells that are produced in the few days are few to you then think again about the concept of few and many!

Salome, I will ask you a simple question: where is the hypocracy when a religious belief stand against some behavior and its follower attest to it? I thought hypocracy is when your actions are opposite to your words,no? Also, isn't ironic that the pro-choice have same stringency when opposing views are present. I will qoute for you Norma McCorvey about her view of the pro-choice movement, which she was the motivational force of it at certain time-Norma McCorvey is Jane Doe that won supreme court decision in 1970s for abortion right: "Plain and simple, I was used. I was a nobody to them. They only needed a pregnant woman to use for their case, and that is it. They cared, not about me, but only about legalizing abortion. Even after the case, I was never respected -- probably because I was not an ivy-league educated, liberal feminist like they were."

Does it show consistency or something else that have start with the "H"letter? The stroy did not stop there but later the above lady she reocunted her experience and said this: "Abortion has been founded on lies and deception from the very beginning. All I did was lie about how I got pregnant. I was having an affair. It all started out as a little lie. I said what I needed to say. But, my little lie grew and grew and became more horrible with each telling. Sarah and Linda's (the pro-abortion attorneys in Roe) eyes seemed blinded to my obvious inability to tell the same story twice. It was good for the cause. It read well in the newspapers. With the help of willing media the credibility of well-known columnists, the lie became known as the truth these past 25 years."
FYI, this lady never had abortion in her three pregnancy!!!!
regarding the misery part, isn't poetic justice when every research shows the misery that post-abortion women go through. Just check the web for that and read for yourself about the misery and consequences of abortion at various stages.
finally, a better world and living conditions can be achieved when we practice our moral values/religious beliefs that promote responsibility, hope, compassion,kindness, and voice in the wilderness for the voiceless ones.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by sarhay

Salome, what is extreme to you in this matter?

Extreme was referring to Dalzi's post, she likes to see things in black and white. There is life in between total chasitity and b_tchiness:D

...rarely you hear people doing abortion after few days of conception.

Yes rarely, but it happens like in cases of rape for example. Or if you take the 72 hrs pills etc...

Salome, I will ask you a simple question: where is the hypocracy when a religious belief stand against some behavior and its follower attest to it?

Hypocrisy is when your pro-life choice brings actually just more suffering, a miserable life.

...regarding the misery part, isn't poetic justice when every research shows the misery that post-abortion women go through. Just check the web for that and read for yourself about the misery and consequences of abortion at various stages.

I never saw such researches, it shall depend though on the individual cases. I am sure you will find many women who regretted it, and also many who will say it was inevitable.

finally, a better world and living conditions can be achieved when we practice our moral values/religious beliefs that promote responsibility, hope, compassion,kindness, and voice in the wilderness for the voiceless ones.

Is moral attached to religion, or it stands separately too? If it stands alone too, who sets the moral standards?

ps: we can not argue with faith, right?:)

[Claudia]

Originally Posted by Xena

ok no disrespect to anyone in here but i was listening to a george carlin show just now and he said something wickedly funny and it's not off topic here

"Have you noticed that most of the women who are against abortion are women you wouldn’t want to f*** in the first place? There’s such balance in nature"

I dare to say that most pro life women wouldn't sleep with this George Carlin...

George Carlin is not a wise man and his taste need to be fixed. Most pro abortion women are lefty, feminists, and lesbians. I don't say ALL pro abortion women are left and lesbians but here in Europe most of them are. And usually this kind of women dont really care about how they look (I don't know any female communist who cares about her look! Not even one!). So how can he say such thing? Anyway, who cares about what this man thinks?

Originally Posted by Salome

Extreme was referring to Dalzi's post, she likes to see things in black and white. There is life in between total chasitity and b_tchiness:D

Things are black or white. There is no middle term, you know. A wise person knows when something is "good" and when something is "bad".

Of course there is a life between total chasity and "b_tchiness" (to quote you). Who said the opposite?

Hypocrisy is when your pro-life choice brings actually just more suffering, a miserable life.

Please Salome, do not talk in other's name. Maybe a child would make you feel miserable but then you have a solution: do not get pregnant. But don't "push" other women to abortions. Be aware that your words can be readen by women in despair. Don't lead them to a very wrong choice.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Claudia

George Carlin is not a wise man and his taste need to be fixed. Most pro abortion women are lefty, feminists, and lesbians. I don't say ALL pro abortion women are left and lesbians but here in Europe most of them are. And usually this kind of women dont really care about how they look (I don't know any female communist who cares about her look! Not even one!). So how can he say such thing? Anyway, who cares about what this man thinks?

So being right winged makes you virgin Mary? It's the total opposite. And how do you associate lefties with direct atheism?? So if you don't invade nations and destroy them, you're an atheist? lol Some God you've got there. Are the hardcore Muslims communists? LOOL! In the so called "Christian" nations of the west, one day they bring the Pope on TV, the next day they talk about Ellen Degeneres marrying Portia De Rossi . Legalizing prostitution and gay marriages? Makes you wonder if they think Jesus blesses Mardi Gras lol. Talk about hypocricy. Pro-life and killing children in Iraq is by all means contradictory. You don't kill them in the womb, but kill them after they're born? If you're pro-life, you can't be supporitve of wars on kids, that makes you pro-hypocricy.

On a side note, that atheism you're talking about came as a revolt against the Catholic priests and clergy who used religion and abused their power. You can't blame them for being rebels against that. Refer to the "Catholicism is not Christianity" thread. Had the Biblical teachings been applied as they should've been, they wouldn't have turned to atheists. They must've thought "what a dumb God who hangs scientists".

Things are black or white. There is no middle term, you know. A wise person knows when something is "good" and when something is "bad".

We all have positive and negative traits.

Of course there is a life between total chasity and "b_tchiness" (to quote you). Who said the opposite?

She seems to think that you gotta be either holy or a s***. I'm perplexed by such logic.

[Frisbeetarian]

I dare to say that most pro life women wouldn't sleep with this George Carlin...

George Carlin is not a wise man and his taste need to be fixed. Most pro abortion women are lefty, feminists, and lesbians. I don't say ALL pro abortion women are left and lesbians but here in Europe most of them are. And usually this kind of women dont really care about how they look (I don't know any female communist who cares about her look! Not even one!). So how can he say such thing? Anyway, who cares about what this man thinks?

Holy flying turds, is someone dissing George Carlin??? BLASPHEMER!
Anywayz seriously, can u find anything that man has said that wasnt wise?
How many female communists do u know?

On a side note, communism was a revolt against the Catholic priests and clergy. You can't blame them for doing so.

No, it was a revolt against absolute monarchy, by the time communism had arrived the church had barely any power left. Absolute monarchy was a revolt against the church.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by friendofzeus

Holy flying turds, is someone dissing George Carlin??? BLASPHEMER!
Anywayz seriously, can u find anything that man has said that wasnt wise?




No, it was a revolt against absolute monarchy, by the time communism had arrived the church had barely any power left. Absolute monarchy was a revolt against the church.

Atheism, not communism :).

[Frisbeetarian]

What?
Atheism was always there.
To clarify what i am saying; The formal idea around the 15century was that the pope elected and removed kings at will, the church had ultimate power even over nations. Revolt against church authority came with the appearance of such great figures as Machiavelli, dictating ideas of self rule and that the prince draws power from his own, that by his will and his power he ascended to the throne. The prince needs not the church to acquire rule. This commenced the diminishing power of the church and the absolute reign of the monarch, embodied by the supreme rule of "Le Roi Soleil", King Louis XIV of France.

By the 18centure and the french revolution, the current flowed now against the supreme monarch and in favor of the rule of the people, of the bourgeois. This again embodied by the communist revolution.

[Claudia]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

So being right winged makes you virgin Mary? It's the total opposite. And how do you associate lefties with direct atheism??

Who mentioned Atheist? I wrote "lefty, feminists, and lesbians". A pro-abortion woman may believe in God (so she's not an atheist) and still don't obbey Him (as it happens with lesbians).

I know enough about Islam to understand that

Are the hardcore Muslims communists? LOOL!

I know enough about Islam to understand that Muslims can never be communists. Islamic orthodoxyis very associated with progressive economic reforms for the poor,reducing income inequality, and increasing government ownership of businesses and industries, so they can never be Communists.

In the so called "Christian" nations of the west, one day they bring the Pope on TV, the next day they talk about Ellen Degeneres marrying Portia De Rossi . Legalizing prostitution and gay marriages? Makes you wonder if they think Jesus blesses Mardi Gras lol. Talk about hypocricy. Pro-life and killing children in Iraq is by all means contradictory. You don't kill them in the womb, but kill them after they're born? If you're pro-life, you can't be supporitve of wars on kids, that makes you pro-hypocricy.

What are you talking about? Where did I mention Christian nations on my posts?... Ther are no Christian nations... because the ungodly will always be more than the godly ones. Governments of the west have no religion! Most of them are composed by lefty (and atheists!) members. Who legalizes prostitution are people without faith and religion. So how can you blame Christians for what ungodly people do?
Your post about Christians is totally off topic, sorry for that.

Originally Posted by friendofzeus

Holy flying turds, is someone dissing George Carlin??? BLASPHEMER!
Anywayz seriously, can u find anything that man has said that wasnt wise?
How many female communists do u know?

I know enough of them to know how they think and behave.