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View Poll Results: Are you with or against abortion?
with 50 26.88%
against 68 36.56%
to some extent 60 32.26%
not sure 8 4.30%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

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Default 17th May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omeros View Post
dans ce cas la moi personnellemnt je ME SUICIDE je ne peux tue un enfant c'est inhumain ca je prefere me tue car enfin c'est mon boulot et cest pas la faute au BOUBOU de quel droit je tue un etre assez fragile de quel droit ?
Can you post please in english? i never understand your posts:(
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Default 17th May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Can you post please in english? i never understand your posts:(
hehhehe my english is like japenese:P
if u want some lessons in japenese just read mu english posts :P
in generale i was saying if that happened 2 me i just kill my self and i wont never kill my baby cz he dnt have a power 2 protest
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Default 17th May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omeros View Post
dans ce cas la moi personnellemnt je ME SUICIDE je ne peux tue un enfant c'est inhumain ca je prefere me tue car enfin c'est mon boulot et cest pas la faute au BOUBOU de quel droit je tue un etre assez fragile de quel droit ?
In that case Omeros you are making a double murder : you are killing your baby and yourself.
And in both cases you have no right to end a life whatever was the reason.
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Default 17th May 2007

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Originally Posted by faithful View Post
In that case Omeros you are making a double murder : you are killing your baby and yourself.
And in both cases you have no right to end a life whatever was the reason.
je ne crois pas cela car il faut mieu se donner la mort que de pousser cet enfant, a un certain moment , a me demander pourquoi je le traite de cette facon ou meme de le pousser a se donner lui meme la mort
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Default 17th May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella View Post
We are not living in Disney World, so sometimes the cruel life can create quite unfair situations, and its non of your rights to label those women who decide about abortion in certain cases, as murderers.
Induced Abortion (IA)....
Medicine Have legalized IA for so many cases especially cases that puts the life of the mother in danger..
In the recent years medicine legalized (IA) for Mothers having an abnormal embryo or fetus (down's syndrome and many other genetic diseases) for it affects the community negatively especially constitutionally and economically...
In different countries the laws differ..some legalize any kind of IA and some dont...
In a country that does not legalize this act such as lebanon , eventhough someone may perform IA without feeling guilty against humanity but the Doctor who performed the IA in that country Is guilty towards humanity and medicine laws in general...
So both ways end in an action against humanity...
The baby has the right to live.
i have a QUESTION to the ones agree with IA..
WHY DONT U KILL A BABY WHO IS ONE DAY OR ONE MONTH YEARS OLD??how does this act differ from a 7 month fetus?
nowadays every young and mature girl should clearly know about most contarceptive methods...
any act that would lead to an unwanted pregnancy btw two unmarried couple is an act of ignorance and irresponsibility and they must be responsible for their acts.
for married couples there is no excuse unless a failure in tye method of contarception in this case the pregnancy could be stopped by emergency contraception so it doesnt lead to Abortion.
For the Females on this forum i say...if u read about the side effects of Curretage
(D&C) u will prefer to have the baby more than abortion coz this procedure may leave u without children the rest of your life ( D&C is a procedure in which the Doctor remove the fetus or embryo from the uterine cavity by multiple scrapings) especially side effects as uterine infections and/or Uterine perforation.
For USA and UK these lines are From Williams Obstetrics 21st edition(latest)

LEGAL ASPECTS. Until the United States Supreme Court decision of 1973, only therapeutic abortions could be performed legally in most states. The most common legal definition of therapeutic abortion until then was termination of pregnancy before the period of fetal viability for the purpose of saving the life of the mother. A few states extended their laws to read "to prevent serious or permanent bodily injury to the mother" or "to preserve the life or health of the woman." Some states allowed abortion if pregnancy was likely to result in the birth of an infant with grave malformations.

The stringent abortion laws in effect until 1973 were of fairly recent origin. Abortion before quickening—the first definite perception of fetal movement, which most often occurs between 16 and 20 weeks' gestation—was either lawful or widely tolerated in both the United States and Great Britain until 1803. In that year, as part of a general restructuring of British criminal law, a statute was enacted that made abortion before quickening illegal. The Roman Catholic Church's traditional condemnation of abortion did not receive the ultimate sanction of universal law (excommunication) until 1869 (Pilpel and Norwich, 1969).

It was not until 1821 that Connecticut enacted the nation's first abortion law. Subsequently, throughout the United States, abortion became illegal except to save the life of the mother. Because therapeutic abortion to save the life of the woman is rarely necessary or definable, it follows that the great majority of such operations previously performed in this country went beyond the letter of the law. Borgmann and Jones (2000) have extensively reviewed legal issues in providing abortions.

INDICATIONS. Some indications for therapeutic abortion are discussed with the diseases that commonly lead to the operation. Well-documented indications are persistent heart disease after previous cardiac decompensation and advanced hypertensive vascular disease. Another is invasive carcinoma of the cervix. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (1987) established guidelines for therapeutic abortion:

• When continuation of pregnancy may threaten the life of the woman or seriously impair her health. In determining whether or not there is such a risk to health, account may be taken of her total environment, actual or reasonably foreseeable.

• When pregnancy has resulted from rape or incest. In this case, the same medical criteria should be employed in evaluation of the woman.

• When continuation of pregnancy is likely to result in the birth of a child with severe physical deformities or mental retardation. Issues such as maternal HIV-13 infection are less clear-cut but problematic (Araneta and colleagues, 1992).


As the church is against IA , Islam too is against with different view points....
some clerics say it is allowed before 40 days and some is never allowed..the main debate btw the two sects is this question "when does the soul enter the body or form?during the first seconds of conception or when the heart or other organs start to work?.."
any way Islam legalizes the IA for whatever endangers the mother's life but not genetic defects as i know..but in an islamic country like iran abortion for downs syndrome as an example is also legal by the isalmic law.
thnx for ur patience
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Default 18th May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omeros View Post
hehhehe my english is like japenese:P
if u want some lessons in japenese just read mu english posts :P
in generale i was saying if that happened 2 me i just kill my self and i wont never kill my baby cz he dnt have a power 2 protest
You know there are some cases where we shall not be so rigid on abortion, bc life in practice differs from rosy theories. One of the cases is rape. I am sure non of us can grasp here that trauma if we havent lived it, hopefully nobody will get into such unfortunate situation.

And your english is very good, so keep on posting in it rather!:)

-------

A 7 months old baby??? who would want to abort in such a period?
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Default 18th May 2007

This comment might come late but i judt have to say it:
if anyone of you has seen how the abortion is operated and how we see the little featus (that you call :not yet a human being) fight for his life trying to evade the horrible instrument used to cut him into pieces, you would competely be against abortion, which is considered not only a murder but also a crime against humanity. So what's the difference between killing a month-old child and killing a smaller one that is still in the womb not even having the chance to defend himself. so i see abortion as a horrible crime that should not be accepted under any circomstance, because we cannot corect our mistakes by commiting a crime. let us for once be responsibel for our actions.
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Default 18th May 2007

for those who are saying that life starts at the time of conception i must disagree!

if we say that death occurs when a heart stops, then life begins when the heart starts to beat! ...ya3ne at the 40th day of pregnancy.

In case of rape, a woman will definitely know if she's pregnant or not before the 40 days!
personally, if it happened to me i'd sure consider an abortion, but keeping the baby can still be an option.... i can't judge because i don't know how this whole thing would make me feel! maybe i'd feel comfortable with keeping the baby...maybe not!
but i know something i will never abort, after the 40 days and even if it was because of a rape!...40 days are more than enough to make a decision!
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Default 18th May 2007

"Are you born after 1973????
Congratulations!!
you are one of the lucky ones........ you made it!!!!!
1/3 of your generation was aborted!!"
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Default 18th May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by lebluv View Post
Islam too is against with different view points....
some clerics say it is allowed before 40 days and some is never allowed..the main debate btw the two sects is this question "when does the soul enter the body or form?during the first seconds of conception or when the heart or other organs start to work?.."
any way Islam legalizes the IA for whatever endangers the mother's life but not genetic defects as i know..but in an islamic country like iran abortion for downs syndrome as an example is also legal by the isalmic law.
thnx for ur patience
no there is no debate on whether it's allowed or not!
the debate is about whether it's allowed before 40 days or 120 days!
Islam says that at the age of 40 days God sends an angel to blow the soul into the fetus..and once it has a soul you can never kill the baby, because you'll be taking away a soul! and that's equal to murder
scientifically speaking, the first heart beat and the first brain wave occurs at 40 days.
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