Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church?

[Free_Patriot]

Originally Posted by Mey

Well I vote for keeping it as a musuem, though I believe that Churches and Mosques are places of worship and anyone can go in and pray, however due to the sensitivity of the issue, I prefer keeping it as a musuem to stay as a symbol for both religions since you cannot convince fanatics from both sides that a mosque is a place of worship for both and so is a church.

I dont agree on the argument that it was a Church in the first place, because under this argument lets transform mst of the Chrches in Rome to Athiests places of worship, you know the Pantheon was an Athiest place of worship and then they turned it into a Church which is now a musuem.

I believe all those relics should be open as musuems to everyone, hell you can go and pray inside the musuem who is stopping you ?

I agree that not all places of worship should be restaured to their original religious role especially when there are no people demanding that in the example you gave. I fail to see the fanatism in promoting a peaceful and democratic petition. It's easy to say that both sides could pray in a church or a mosque or a museum or in the national park, but I think this also about the ownership of the property and who will make money out of it

Originally Posted by Libnene Qu7

I agree, and as mount amel said, if 3% of the local population is Orthodox, then who's going to fill it up during mass if it turns into a huge church? It's for our Orthodox brothers to get over the loss that occured half a millenium ago. And if you still want to hold a grudge then blame Rome for sending its army to pillage it before it fell into the hands of the Muslims. The city was impregnable before the 4th crusade.

I wish we would stop using the 3% number as an argument against the petition just to show the way we view the rights of the minorities. Here in Ottawa the muslim population is 6% and I can't even count the number of mosques. This is not about holding a grudge against anybody, you guys have to understand that this Church for the Orthodox is similar the Al-Aqsa mosque for the muslims. Saying that the Orthodox should get over it is a little simplistic regarding the sensitivity of the issue.

[Mey]

I fail to see the fanatism in promoting a peaceful and democratic petition. It's easy to say that both sides could pray in a church or a mosque or a museum or in the national park, but I think this also about the ownership of the property and who will make money out of it

Concerning the fanaticism, how can you convince a Muslim Fanatic that you are converting what was once a mosque to a church ?? Expect a terrorist attack !

Well I only thought about the praying thing, as thats the main part that came to mind, I forgot about the money , I guess I am much of an idealist.

By the way I was not aware of the importance of this church in the Orthodox faith, if its as important as Al Aqsa is to Muslims, we need to come up with a solution, I will be back after I give it some thought.

[mount_amel]

Originally Posted by Mey

Concerning the fanaticism, how can you convince a Muslim Fanatic that you are converting what was once a mosque to a church ?? Expect a terrorist attack !

Well I only thought about the praying thing, as thats the main part that came to mind, I forgot about the money , I guess I am much of an idealist.

By the way I was not aware of the importance of this church in the Orthodox faith, if its as important as Al Aqsa is to Muslims, we need to come up with a solution, I will be back after I give it some thought.

This is really offensive !!!
How dare you ??
I am a fanatic Muslim and i dont dare hurt a bee !!

It was a church and then turned into a mosque long long time ago ..then to a museum .. What a big deal ..

Salam

[Mey]

Muslim fanatics are people of the likes of Bin Laden, if you are of the likes of Bin Laden, then I suspect you might do a terrorist attack too.

Secondly I think you have enough common sense to know what I meant from the post, especially that you have been here for a long time.

Call it what you like, radical Muslim, Muslim Fanatic, Muslim Extremist, give me an adjective and I will use it for you.

And regarding your argument (knowing that FP said that its as important to Orthodox as Aqsa is to Islam), then if the Israelis transform the Aqsa to a Jewsih Temple now, after a long long time you would not mind ?

[Motorcity]

I think there's enough space in that Bldg to house a mosque, a Church, a Synagoge & a Soccer match, all at the same time!

here, take another look:

[mount_amel]

Originally Posted by Mey

Muslim fanatics are people of the likes of Bin Laden, if you are of the likes of Bin Laden, then I suspect you might do a terrorist attack too.

Secondly I think you have enough common sense to know what I meant from the post, especially that you have been here for a long time.

Call it what you like, radical Muslim, Muslim Fanatic, Muslim Extremist, give me an adjective and I will use it for you.

And regarding your argument (knowing that FP said that its as important to Orthodox as Aqsa is to Islam), then if the Israelis transform the Aqsa to a Jewsih Temple now, after a long long time you would not mind ?

Osama Bin Laden is not a muslim !!He is a terrorist !!

so dont mix up terms and you should know by now that Islam is no like what is interepreted in the west.

It was a church and the land there has no significance as jeuraslem and Mecca .. its never been mentioned in any holy book , so we conclude that its a different issue.

Salam

[Mey]

Originally Posted by mount_amel

Osama Bin Laden is not a muslim !!He is a terrorist !!

Yes true, Bin Laden is a terrorist of that I have no doubt, however you should well know that a Muslim is who said " Ashhado An la ilaha illa allah, w ashhado anna mo7amadan rasool allah", and for that Bin Laden is a Muslim.

I am not mixing up terms, Bin Laden is a Muslim and a terrorist, I am not saying all Muslims are terrorists so calm down and read my posts carefully. And I know that Islam is not what is shown about Islam in western media in general, however its also ur duty, and my duty to work more on improving the image of Islam rather than only complain about it, there are Muslims who are giving Islam a bad name, and Bin laden is one of them.

[mount_amel]

Originally Posted by Mey

Yes true, Bin Laden is a terrorist of that I have no doubt, however you should well know that a Muslim is who said " Ashhado An la ilaha illa allah, w ashhado anna mo7amadan rasool allah", and for that Bin Laden is a Muslim.

I am not mixing up terms, Bin Laden is a Muslim and a terrorist, I am not saying all Muslims are terrorists so calm down and read my posts carefully. And I know that Islam is not what is shown about Islam in western media in general, however its also ur duty, and my duty to work more on improving the image of Islam rather than only complain about it, there are Muslims who are giving Islam a bad name, and Bin laden is one of them.

since when ??

Anyways , even if you say this statement like you just did , that dosnet make you a muslim .. Unless you want me to say , mouslilini the christian did this and this , hitler the christian did this and this ...... and the list goes on ...

Got my point ..

Salam

[Mey]

What do you mean since when ? Please you can accuse someone to be not following the teachings of Islam as he should be, but you cannot call him a non-Muslim, if he believes in the shahada.

To be declared a Muslim the Shahada is enough (ofcourse if you believe in it) and I am sure Bin Laden does.

And no its not the same with Hitler and Mussolini.

As far as I know Mussolini in his declarations did not commit in the name of Christianity. He committed in the name of Italy and the Roman people.

As far as I know Hitler did not commit anything in the name of Christianity, yes he was a Christian but his crimes were committed taking the Aryan Race supremacy as his goal.

However in the case of Bin Laden, he is committing his acts of terror in the name of Islam, and thats the difference. He uses Islam for his reasons, I dont know why are you keeping with this argument, its obvious I am not accusing Islam of anything, however yes there are people who use Islam the bad way, and thus its your duty to show the good side of Islam and work on it.

I did not say Muslims are terrorists, so take a chill pill.

[mount_amel]

Originally Posted by Mey

What do you mean since when ? Please you can accuse someone to be not following the teachings of Islam as he should be, but you cannot call him a non-Muslim, if he believes in the shahada.

To be declared a Muslim the Shahada is enough (ofcourse if you believe in it) and I am sure Bin Laden does.

And no its not the same with Hitler and Mussolini.

As far as I know Mussolini in his declarations did not commit in the name of Christianity. He committed in the name of Italy and the Roman people.

As far as I know Hitler did not commit anything in the name of Christianity, yes he was a Christian but his crimes were committed taking the Aryan Race supremacy as his goal.

However in the case of Bin Laden, he is committing his acts of terror in the name of Islam, and thats the difference. He uses Islam for his reasons, I dont know why are you keeping with this argument, its obvious I am not accusing Islam of anything, however yes there are people who use Islam the bad way, and thus its your duty to show the good side of Islam and work on it.

I did not say Muslims are terrorists, so take a chill pill.

Chillin .. alwayas chillin ...

I will not go offtopic ... this issue worth another thread .. you gave me an idea ..

salam