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  (#31 (permalink)) Old
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 11th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lebanese_a
I know I'll like it but do massacres expire? uno if I do the same thing now (I wont) will you forgive in 500 years
By the way plz give me the list of massacres that are still on and those who have expired!

What massacers !!!!!

man , it was a feirce war between the byzentine or what was left from the byzentine empire and the turks .. the turks won the battle .. they took istanboul .. Now its a muslim city , just like any city in europe which was a pagan city and now is a christian city ...
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Arrow Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 11th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by mount_amel
What massacers !!!!!

man , it was a feirce war between the byzentine or what was left from the byzentine empire and the turks .. the turks won the battle .. they took istanboul .. Now its a muslim city , just like any city in europe which was a pagan city and now is a christian city ...
tayib so should we delete all the old symbols of previous civilisation?
actually ur arguing with me and I support leaving it as a musem but I just commented on the 3% left so we don't respect their past part, If they want to make it a church they have to transform the churchs in spain to mosques to be fair but none of this will hapen coz life is not fair.
But I really don't like the attitude: "we took its ours" coz if we follow this attitude jordan and egypt would be now called israel (not mentioning syria coz I guess we can say it is done)
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 11th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by mount_amel
What massacers !!!!!

man , it was a feirce war between the byzentine or what was left from the byzentine empire and the turks .. the turks won the battle .. they took istanboul .. Now its a muslim city , just like any city in europe which was a pagan city and now is a christian city ...
Are you therefore acknowledging the right of Israel to take over Palestine


Comrade Bassam
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  (#34 (permalink)) Old
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 11th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Bassam
Are you therefore acknowledging the right of Israel to take over Palestine


Comrade Bassam
Hehe, good one.
Anyway, I'm someone who's completely against the defilement of history, ie, turning a mosque into a church or vice-versa. However, with regards to the Hagia Sofia, since the transformation occured long ago, I think it's unrealistic to have changed back into a church. I think the best thing to do is keep it in our history books that this structure used to be one of the most magnificant churches in the world, built by Justinian. We should learn from our lessons and not repeat our past mistakes. We shouldn't erase history by changing monuments to something that appeases us, or blow up huge statues just because they're not in line with our creed. This petition should be a lud message, more than actually returning the mosque into a church.
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 12th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lebanese_a
tayib so should we delete all the old symbols of previous civilisation?
actually ur arguing with me and I support leaving it as a musem but I just commented on the 3% left so we don't respect their past part, If they want to make it a church they have to transform the churchs in spain to mosques to be fair but none of this will hapen coz life is not fair.
But I really don't like the attitude: "we took its ours" coz if we follow this attitude jordan and egypt would be now called israel (not mentioning syria coz I guess we can say it is done)

Man its been 500 years .. the city is almost 100% muslims , why you wanna change it to a church or keep it as a museum !! Let it be as it was , the house of god so people can go and pray for the one and only one ..

anyways , egypt is egypt and syria is syria .. most of the people converted to islam , or its no sense that the arabs couldve made such huge popualtions ..


Salam
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 12th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Bassam
Are you therefore acknowledging the right of Israel to take over Palestine


Comrade Bassam

I am actually aknowledging the opposite !!
I said we cant go back 500 years so what about 3000 years ..

If following your logic , Actually the palastenians were living in this land before the israelis .. !! Right ..
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 12th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libnene Qu7
This petition should be a lud message, more than actually returning the mosque into a church.
Dear friend, the petition is about turning a museum into a church.
Just thought I should clarify.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mount_amel
Man its been 500 years .. the city is almost 100% muslims , why you wanna change it to a church or keep it as a museum !! Let it be as it was , the house of god so people can go and pray for the one and only one ..

anyways , egypt is egypt and syria is syria .. most of the people converted to islam , or its no sense that the arabs couldve made such huge popualtions ..


Salam
Mount Amel,
The place is now a museum, there are no Friday prayers and no people praying. It's a museum since 1934.
Just to clarify for the readers.
Thanks
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 12th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by mount_amel
what r you talking about dude .. This is history man , they have been defeated and the turks took it 500 years ago ...

Its a mosque now or a museum mosque .. you can go and watch it from inside and you will really like it ...

mount amel did you visit Ayasofia ?? if you did i will be really disapointed with what you wrote " a museum mosque" and if you did nt visite it i will consider this just lack of information .
from the outside : The most magnificent of all of the Byzantine churches is the Hagia Sophia (not islamic design) Because Byzantium was strongly under the influence of Rome at the time of the construction of the Hagia Sophia, this structure is an amalgam of the magnificence of Roman architecture with the standard church architecture of the Byzantines.
in the inside of the museum :
The original mosaics of the church were severely damaged by the Iconoclasts, but new mosaics replaced the former in the 9th century after the period of Iconoclasm had disappeared. Besides the religious subjects of the mosaics used to decorate the interior surfaces, the emperor was also used as a subject. Over the main portal to the inner narthex, a mosaic depicts the Virgin Mary holding the Christ child, with the emperors Justinian and Constantine sitting at her sides. Another mosaic over the Emperor's Gate shows Jesus sitting on a throne holding a book with the Emperor Leon VII kneeling before him. Another mosaic of the Madonna enthroned, holding the Christ child; to the right Gabriel, and to the left, Michael, is in the dome of the apse. Portraits of the saints once decorated the semi-circular arched niches below the northern tympanum, only three of these have survived. All these mosaics bear traces of Hellenistic influences. There are also several mosaic "portraits" of other members of the imperial family. Portrait art was very advanced during the Byzantine period.
Access to the galleries of the church is obtained via a stone-paved ramp. The gallery decorated with green columns directly opposite the apses was used by the empress and her retinue during ceremonies. The Deisis mosaic, one of the most famous mosaics in the world is also here. It portrays Christ flanked by the Virgin Mary and St. John the Baptist. This extremely expressive mosaic dates to the 12th century. In the gallery there are two more mosaics, which are also very impressive.


The church had several different restorations. After the conquest of Istanbul, Mehmet the Conqueror had the church restored once again, and converted into a mosque. The four minarets, one on each corner of the building were added at various times during the Ottoman period. After Fatih captured the city this structure was used for worship by Moslems.


It was converted into a museum during the recent Republican period, by order of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, and re-opened on 1st February 1935.


Over the past several years, Professor Ahmet Cakmak, of Princeton University's Department of Civil Engineering and Operations Research has undertaken the structural analysis, under earthquake loads, of the Hagia Sophia. The Hagia Sophia is a major museum (formerly church and mosque) in Istanbul, Turkey, built by the Emperor Justinian during the 6th century AD. Professor Cakmak has sought to determine the susceptibility of the structure, specifically its large dome and arches, to collapse due to the earthquakes that often strike that part of the world.


so allow me to correct your informations its not a museum mosque but it is both as it still contain the christian relique as well as the muslims !

http://www.princeton.edu/~asce/const_95/ayasofya.html

http://www.princeton.edu/~asce/const_95/history.html
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  (#39 (permalink)) Old
Mey
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 12th April 2006

Well I vote for keeping it as a musuem, though I believe that Churches and Mosques are places of worship and anyone can go in and pray, however due to the sensitivity of the issue, I prefer keeping it as a musuem to stay as a symbol for both religions since you cannot convince fanatics from both sides that a mosque is a place of worship for both and so is a church.

I dont agree on the argument that it was a Church in the first place, because under this argument lets transform mst of the Chrches in Rome to Athiests places of worship, you know the Pantheon was an Athiest place of worship and then they turned it into a Church which is now a musuem.

I believe all those relics should be open as musuems to everyone, hell you can go and pray inside the musuem who is stopping you ?
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Default Re: Will you support the restauration of Hagia Sophia as an Orthodox church? - 12th April 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mey
Well I vote for keeping it as a musuem, though I believe that Churches and Mosques are places of worship and anyone can go in and pray, however due to the sensitivity of the issue, I prefer keeping it as a musuem to stay as a symbol for both religions since you cannot convince fanatics from both sides that a mosque is a place of worship for both and so is a church.

I dont agree on the argument that it was a Church in the first place, because under this argument lets transform mst of the Chrches in Rome to Athiests places of worship, you know the Pantheon was an Athiest place of worship and then they turned it into a Church which is now a musuem.

I believe all those relics should be open as musuems to everyone, hell you can go and pray inside the musuem who is stopping you ?
I agree, and as mount amel said, if 3% of the local population is Orthodox, then who's going to fill it up during mass if it turns into a huge church? It's for our Orthodox brothers to get over the loss that occured half a millenium ago. And if you still want to hold a grudge then blame Rome for sending its army to pillage it before it fell into the hands of the Muslims. The city was impregnable before the 4th crusade.
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