Who believes in God in Europe?

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Danny Z

You clearly said that science wouldn't exist if it wasn't of Islam that's pure fanatism, and now you're changing to say that Islam came to build on the past etc.

I wasn't referring to the science that was before Islam, rather than the science of today. Who doesn't know that there was science before Islam? lol

that's now what you said earlier; and it wasn't because of Islam that their nations flourished, it was because of the organization that their nations flourished, incidentally they happened to be muslims, big deal what does religion have to do with civilizations flourishing before and after islam, how can you justify the egyptians? how can you justify the greek? how can you justify the British? How can you justify the Americans? Nations flourish because of good management and methods to allocate wealth to the right place, it could be done because of a religious decree to allocate wealth which goes back to management or because of pure management that has nothing to do with religion to start with, but which some religions adopted as a means of life. If some religions have management in them it doesn't mean that you can't management and live your life and flourish without the religion, same as you don't religion to stop people from stealing.
Bottom line religion and way of life are two different things, mixing them together is for the easy minded, it makes his life easier, he doesn't have to think.

Each civilization had it's own methods, culture and history. There is no need to explain anything, this is obvious. What we're talking about here is the fact that everybody knows. The Arabs before Mohamad's message had no management skills whatsoever, they flourished on power over the weak and poor. The only thing they knew was how to worship statues and throw the only piece of bread in their hands before them only to end up in the pockets of those who called themselves priests. When Islam came, it brought what is obvious in Islamic books. What were the Arabs before Islam? " incidentally " you said? The organization of wealth is what Islam established by the khoms and zakat which went into 'khazinat al Muslimin", or what is called 'social security' today.

[Frisbeetarian]

and re-butchered by Islam, it seems Islam is a double edged sword, or maybe Islam has nothing to do with being democratic or not let alone Christianity for that matter.

I plead that you refrain from turning this discussion into a bashing bonanza. If you have something to say, back it up with proof and reference. Dont just utter about things just to spite one another. Please.

Democracy was not butchered by "Islam", Islam is still what it was like when it came and took Arabia from nothing to everything. What you have in the Arab world is not Islam, it's western imposed dictatorships that brought ignorance to the people and as a result we have what we have. Islam the knowledge and books is not Islamic regimes. They all violate for political purposes. There is nothing more just than Islam the religion. It's beautiful.

Actually the decline of oriental strength came with the ransacking of the mongols and the subsequent destruction of most of our centres of knowledge. Thats what brought Islam down.

Where did I imply that people started loving each other when Valentino's mum gave birth to him? Knowledge has been passed down and we all know where it started, I didn't say otherwise. Point is, Islam not only stamped out paganism, but gave the Arabs the boost to take the knowledge from those before them and develop it while the world was sinking in ignorance. It did not come to take the people back, on the contrary, their nations flourished in science, art, literature, architecture...etc because of Islam. Speaking of Islam and science in an attempt to isolate the two is comical.

How was the world sinking in ignorance. You actually know what was happening in China in the time right?

It did not come to take the people back, on the contrary, their nations flourished in science, art, literature, architecture...etc because of Islam. Speaking of Islam and science in an attempt to isolate the two is comical.

I do not agree. Islam was not the catalyst for the grandeur of the Arabs. It was the incorporation and capture or culture rich Persia that served as catalyst. If you notice that most of our famous 'scientist' are of Persian decent.

How can you justify the Americans? Nations flourish because of good management and methods to allocate wealth to the right place, it could be done because of a religious decree to allocate wealth which goes back to management or because of pure management that has nothing to do with religion to start with, but which some religions adopted as a means of life.

How do u explain the Germans? The Protestant mindset in regards to work ethics and labor? I agree, religion isnt always the reason for a nations prosperity, but it can be a driving factor behind shaping the structural organization of a society as to drive it forwards towards prosperity.