The relationship between atheism and communism

[CPL]

Originally Posted by Big_Brother

Communism is very attractive. Unfortunately, man is inherently greedy.
Some people don't accept to be equal to the others, and these are the ones that end up being in power under any form of government.
Some people will always be more equal than the others...
That's why I think a real communist system is impossible.

I mostly agree with you. Some members want to put communism = totalitarianism, while by principle it is not. The USSR and eastern bloc were not really communist.

[Claudia]

Originally Posted by CPL

Which moral basis? 1% takes all the money of 99%?

In a capitalist system whether you’re successful or not depends on your own hard work. I don't think that in capiltalists countries like United States or Australia 1% takes all the money of 99%.

Originally Posted by CPL

The USSR and eastern bloc were not really communist.

Why not?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Originally Posted by CPL

Which moral basis? 1% takes all the money of 99%?

That is an ill-advised statement. Can you go in more detail about what you mean by 1% "take" all the money?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Originally Posted by Abu Ruman

Ya, to put another 500k people into massgraves. Speak for yourself and not on the behalf of those Iraqis who suffered. You might as well call back Hitler too.

I don't want to drift off-topic, but it's the Iraqis who have spoken. That figure whether it's accurate or not, falls on the shoulders of the Iraqis themselves. They are making Saddam look like he was a righteous leader.

[Abu Ruman]

Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Caesar

I don't want to drift off-topic, but it's the Iraqis who have spoken. That figure whether it's accurate or not, falls on the shoulders of the Iraqis themselves. They are making Saddam look like he was a righteous leader.

Based on what? Would you like to argue the numbers? And just because they are acting like animals now (as a result of expressing themselves for the first time in over 30 years, which is normal) all of the sudden that turns Saddam into an angel?

This is interesting coming from a moralist such as yourself.

[CPL]

Originally Posted by Claudia

In a capitalist system whether you’re successful or not depends on your own hard work. I don't think that in capiltalists countries like United States or Australia 1% takes all the money of 99%.



Why not?

Claudia the real communist ideology doesn't call for a totalitarian regime. Communism by principle is when people share everything, it's about a society where the hard working people rule.

Halla2 when I said 1 and 99% don't take it literally as figures, but it applies as an idea. I happen to know because I am in an american global corporate company that has products in every house of every user of this forum. Know something that big companies don't compete against other big companies, in fact they join forces, they hold mutual audits and share alot of information. Their only target for expansion are the little shops. They not only fight them by producing in masses, but as well with all sorts of legal things, and you would be amazed which tricks they can use. For example they can pressure government to adopt some ISO regulations (that are not REALLY necessary), and those regulations would cost a fortune to meet, for the little shops.

And not even the normal employees of those companies get that much, everything goes into the pockets of someone who has a compound name with a dot in the middle. I'm just telling this from my own experience.

And it's not the shareholder who worked hard ya Gaius, the shareholder sits and expects that the normal employees work as hard as they can, because he's the one profiting the most in the end.

Also, corporate companies are just like an authoritative state, they collect datas about anyone, no one can beat their laywers, if you are a threat to them, they will get you, no matter what.

As you can see I am not fanatic to any side, but I would rather respect the principles behind the ideas.

[Kasparov]

You are mixing Atheism, with communism, with totalitarianism, when each is a different entity not related to each other, i assume its the western propaganda about communism which lets people have such simple and naive views about things, like "capitalism is near perfect" , LOL .

[Claudia]

Originally Posted by CPL

Claudia the real communist ideology doesn't call for a totalitarian regime. Communism by principle is when people share everything, it's about a society where the hard working people rule.

Halla2 when I said 1 and 99% don't take it literally as figures, but it applies as an idea. I happen to know because I am in an american global corporate company that has products in every house of every user of this forum. Know something that big companies don't compete against other big companies, in fact they join forces, they hold mutual audits and share alot of information. Their only target for expansion are the little shops. They not only fight them by producing in masses, but as well with all sorts of legal things, and you would be amazed which tricks they can use. For example they can pressure government to adopt some ISO regulations (that are not REALLY necessary), and those regulations would cost a fortune to meet, for the little shops.

And not even the normal employees of those companies get that much, everything goes into the pockets of someone who has a compound name with a dot in the middle. I'm just telling this from my own experience.

And it's not the shareholder who worked hard ya Gaius, the shareholder sits and expects that the normal employees work as hard as they can, because he's the one profiting the most in the end.

Also, corporate companies are just like an authoritative state, they collect datas about anyone, no one can beat their laywers, if you are a threat to them, they will get you, no matter what.

As you can see I am not fanatic to any side, but I would rather respect the principles behind the ideas.

Yes CPL, you are right in some points and I believe in all you say about your own experience but I prefer to live in a system like the one you described than in a communist system in which property, distribution of wealth and religion are subject to social control.

I think my tax euros should go into better schools, hospitals, roads... and not to others to live on my back.

[gramsci]

well guys .
thw idea of marxism is a theory , and how this theory is applied it depend on the contest , so comunism that was in ussr different than the one in cuba or in every different country , all those were a prove to apply the theory but the reality is the communism if it must be applied , it should be applied globally and not in a unique country like what happened in the past , and once it applied i think its more human that the capitalism itself , capitalism is the worst thing happened to the human , but we as individual we cannot do anything about it , its a system accept or leave , and the capitalism will destroy itself , all economic prevision say that.
i dont want to be fanatic comunist , neither im preaching a freedom fighter hard core marxist , im just talking from an economic point of view ,
i visited soviet union once , and i saw the reality they reached a high level but never achieved the coumunism , im just highlighting for u .
u cannot judge a theory without know it really , or u judge it based on different standards , in filosophy there is paradidm and every paradigm is an entire system with standards and value , so when u talk about comunism u cannot critic few aspect while ur hiding major important and positive aspect , the humanism in communism is rational and lead to economic equality between human and thats help of the human developpment where in a society there will be no classes and where there will be no wars . beside comunism never fighted religions as concept , it fighted the political power of religions which is different , we all know what religion historically incited for > jihad , crusades , sionism ...etc .

[gramsci]

thats what Karl marx say about religion , he based his theory taking from fueurbach who have a huge filosophy about atheism:

Religion

"The basis of religious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet found himself or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being encamped outside the world. Man is the world of man, the state, society. This state, this society, produce religion, an inverted world-consciousness, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of that world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in a popular form, its spiritualistic point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, its universal source of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realisation of the human essence because the human essence has no true reality. The struggle against religion is therefore indirectly a fight against the world of which religion is the spiritual aroma.

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and also the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of spiritless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

To abolish religion as the illusory happiness of the people is to demand their real happiness. The demand to give up illusions about the existing state of affairs is the demand to give up a state of affairs which needs illusions. The criticism of religion is therefore in embryo the criticism of the vale of tears, the halo of which is religion."