The relationship between atheism and communism

[gramsci]

Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Caesar

That's exactly were communism fails, in it's economic philosophy first and foremost. Without a free market, you have no real economy, just a bureaucracy that is inefficient and corrupt.

u mean the free market succeded ? globally talking !!
about the burocracy and corruption existed , thats exist in all models and here its the role of control and auditing :) which wasnt widely used in ex comunist countries they were so tollerant about it which is so wrong .. there was thing much more important than controlling few emloyees who re not pushed to work , but i tell u that on many level comunist countries was more advanced than the free market countries , ,..

now seeing that u re refusing the socialist system as an economic model , i suppose ur liberal , do u think this system work ? free market ? from an economic point of view if we want to prevent wars and conflicts ?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Originally Posted by gramsci

u mean the free market succeded ? globally talking !!
about the burocracy and corruption existed , but u thing its the theory ? or there must be a reason for that failure , for example , in condition of tension and war :)
now seeing that u re refusing the socialist system as an economic model , i suppose ur liberal , do u think this system work ? free market ? from an economic point of view if we want to prevent wars and conflicts ?

There is no perfect system, but capitalism is by far the closest thing to perfect. If you don't believe me, just come here to the U.S. and see for yourself. Western Europe comes in second, France who still hasn't privatized it's industry finds itself lagging behind. Eastern Europe is on the rise now that they are slowly recovering from decades of communist rule. This is the reality, no romanticism here.

[gramsci]

Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Caesar

There is no perfect system, but capitalism is by far the closest thing to perfect. If you don't believe me, just come here to the U.S. and see for yourself. Western Europe comes in second, France who still hasn't privatized it's industry finds itself lagging behind. Eastern Europe is on the rise now that they are slowly recovering from decades of communist rule. This is the reality, no romanticism here.

hahaha . ok :)
why dont go and convince the african and the rest of the poor country about ths theory :) , withou US selling arms to them and without making war on iraq to control the petrol reserves and theyr commercial problems with china , ...etc
as for europe , i guess the socialism is the best for europe nowaday , from an economic point of view , the european are flexible in this , they can be liberal whenever there is possibility to benefit and they re socialist when they re not. beside there is a huge difference between europe and USA .dont forget that europe passed through 2 huge world wars on it land and it ws entirely destroyed and after it there was the cold war conflict .while in the US they never had a war on their land since the civil war . their system is very fragile man , they re able to make wars out of their house but once it touch their house like what happen on 9/11 , the entire system cracked down , and no romanticism here its the reality .


ill make it easier for u , what do u think about linux operative system ? and how u compare it with windows ? hope that this example will make u understand better the whole idea ,

[Stella]

Communists believed in nothing, just how to oppress their people, how to keep them brainwashed thus secure their power.

As gaius said, certanily the spreading of atheist views helped forming the communist ideology, of course atheism does not have to lead to communism by all means.

I have not heard yet about religious communists, do they exist at all?

And how communist regimes persecuted the religious leaders, well you can check it, its history already.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Originally Posted by gramsci

hahaha . ok :)
why dont go and convince the african and the rest of the poor country about ths theory :) , withou US selling arms to them and without making war on iraq to control the petrol reserves and theyr commercial problems with china , ...etc
as for europe , i guess the socialism is the best for europe nowaday , from an economic point of view , the european are flexible in this , they can be liberal whenever there is possibility to benefit and they re socialist when they re not. beside there is a huge difference between europe and USA .dont forget that europe passed through 2 huge world wars on it land and it ws entirely destroyed and after it there was the cold war conflict .while in the US they never had a war on their land since the civil war . their system is very fragile man , they re able to make wars out of their house but once it touch their house like what happen on 9/11 , the entire system cracked down , and no romanticism here its the reality .


ill make it easier for u , what do u think about linux operative system ? and how u compare it with windows ? hope that this example will make u understand better the whole idea ,

I base my conclusion on the practical use of communism, socialism and capitalism, and the results speak for themselves; I don't need to explain them to you. As for Africa and Iraq, they are not ready for a democracy yet. The Iraq fiasco calls for another Saddam Hussien to assume power.

[Stella]

Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Caesar

I base my conclusion on the practical use of communism, socialism and capitalism, and the results speak for themselves;

Exactly, why theorizing about communism as an idea when its proven already how destructive it is in practice. And there were plenty of examples, with variations for communism, but one thing in common, they brought destruction to their people.

Gramsci you wanna burn Europe to ashes? I guess so if you think socialism is the best for Europe. Go and check the countries which have socialists regimes, they are rotting from inside. Shall I serve with my own country as an example? /but maybe it doesnt count, as they are masquarade socialists, they are still the ex communists guys/

[Abu Ruman]

Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Caesar

The Iraq fiasco calls for another Saddam Hussien to assume power.

Ya, to put another 500k people into massgraves. Speak for yourself and not on the behalf of those Iraqis who suffered. You might as well call back Hitler too.

[Claudia]

Originally Posted by gramsci

anyway for all who like it or not , communism is our future , logically . :)
claudia i raccomend u this book ; joseph schumpeter : capitalism , socialism and democracy

I don't think so. History talks for itself.
When I state an opinion about something I try to look at this something's effects. If communism only brought misery and pain how can I agree with that system? If it didn't work in Russia, Hungary, Polony where people are not stupid or lazy, it won't work out in any other place of the world.

Originally Posted by gramsci

u know very well claudia that in a liberal economy based on consumerism , ur not totally free and ur totally controlled !ur life is intrused even much more than in a strict communist regime in a total state of war

I live in a liberal economy based on consumerism (just like you :) ) and I don't feel controlled. Sorry, I can buy or say whatever I wish, I am free. The thing is: in capitalist countries, some people have money (usually the ones who work harder) and others don't. In communist countries everyone is poor, you don't have private property, nothing is yours. Now in a capitalist system I am free because I have the right to dispose of my own property according to my own judgment...

Originally Posted by Gaius Julius Caesar

There is no perfect system, but capitalism is by far the closest thing to perfect. If you don't believe me, just come here to the U.S. and see for yourself. Western Europe comes in second, France who still hasn't privatized it's industry finds itself lagging behind. Eastern Europe is on the rise now that they are slowly recovering from decades of communist rule. This is the reality, no romanticism here.

Capitalism is not a perfect system. Like you said, there is no perfect system, but at least capitalism has a moral basis.

[CPL]

Originally Posted by Claudia

Capitalism is not a perfect system. Like you said, there is no perfect system, but at least capitalism has a moral basis.

Which moral basis? 1% takes all the money of 99%?

[Big_Brother]

Communism is very attractive. Unfortunately, man is inherently greedy.
Some people don't accept to be equal to the others, and these are the ones that end up being in power under any form of government.
Some people will always be more equal than the others...
That's why I think a real communist system is impossible.