Praying : communicating with God, or doing Yoga?

[mephisto794]

I have been taught that prayer is a way to 'communicate' with the Divine persons, praying gives me power to overcome difficulties, grants me the will to continue doing something despite the difficulties...

To be brief, Praying has a set of cross-religions objectives (5, if remember well), mainly:
- thanking God
- asking for a blessing, or a divine favor
- Glorifying the Lord.
- (i forgot the other two :S)

However,
This description of the prayer has been tightly bound to "educating" me that my religion is the correct one; praying with this conviction in mind made me pray with more fever.

I believe that all religions (christianity, islam, judaisme, bouddhism.....) 'claim' they are the correct ones. Praying according to their convictions is then more.... efficient? (excuse me for the term, i couldn't find an adequate one!).

Surprisingly, I see people of all religions (worshipping God, Buddha or whatever stone) getting better after praying, getting more confident, more zen...

That is good, but quite surprising to know that at most, one religion is correct, and the others just allusions, or incomplete religions!


So, is praying really communicating with God, or just a way to have a clearer mind !?

[Stella]

I think God is just more wiser than to bother with our religious terms. Religion can be a way of communication although really not necessary, religion is just human.
Always the message is what is important, and that you can communicate with God whenever and wherever you feel like, if your carrying God's Kingdom in your heart.

[Osiris]

Ok.. Let's see.. In Islam, prayer is one of the 5 pillars. Here is the definition of it:

"Prayers must be performed in the Arabic language even if the person neither speaks nor understands Arabic. The prayers are to be recited by heart, although beginners may use written aids. Prayers should be conducted within their prescribed time: it is considered best to pray them exactly at the beginning of their periods, when the call to prayer announces the time of prayer. When far from a mosque, the time can be inferred from the position of the sun in the sky."

Let's start by "must be performed in the Arabic language even if the person neither speaks nor understands Arabic", well.. that kind of sums it up!

I don't find ANY reason for praying, not even one... If "God" "knows everything", he would know if a "person is good or no", if a person will "go to heaven or hell" .. no need for for people to "show him" how much they adore him! I guess one can show his goodwill in many other better ways: self-peace, charity, blood donation, community work... These things are much more important than just sitting like that and perform these Prayers. I don't really think that "God", if he exists, wants everyone to do these prayers for him. I mean, doesn't he know that's in everyone's heart?

Some people claim that praying makes them feel better, I agree. Praying is just like a placebo which, in medicine, is an inactive substance that is administered as if it were a therapy, but which has no therapeutic value. A patient may experience a positive effect while taking one. Most of these effects are thought to be psychological in nature or due to other unrelated factors. I think praying and God effects are just like these placebos I described above. I don't think that God would deny anyone from "heaven" just because I dont spend 10 hours a day sitting, doing nothing and just praying !!! It's a waste of time.

Cheers!

[Stella]

Originally Posted by Osiris

I don't really think that "God", if he exists, wants everyone to do these prayers for him. I mean, doesn't he know that's in everyone's heart?

You hit the point now! I am impressed!

Some people claim that praying makes them feel better, I agree. Praying is just like a placebo which, in medicine, is an inactive substance that is administered as if it were a therapy, but which has no therapeutic value. A patient may experience a positive effect while taking one. Most of these effects are thought to be psychological in nature or due to other unrelated factors. I think praying and God effects are just like these placebos I described above. I don't think that God would deny anyone from "heaven" just because I dont spend 10 hours a day sitting, doing nothing and just praying !!! It's a waste of time.

Dont forget about the lonely ones, the sick ones, the desperate ones, those who suffer physically or psychologically, the confused and lost ones, the poor ones, all those who need a little care, understanding and support. They may even thirst for love! For a last resort praying may give them hope and a peace of mind. You wouldnt want to take away it from them right, just because technically its a waste of time. Gods wisdom is infinite and God has many ways as we all have our owns.

[Faithful]

I do believe that Prayer is a communication between me and God.
I talk to God as i talk to any of my friends or family. I do believe that God is listening to me. Sometimes I ask him for help, or i thank him for a lot of things, or just sit without talking, just meditation.
God replies to me in more than one way. He has his own way, i just have to trust him and to be patient.

Osiris, yes God knows everything, and he knows what is inside our hearts.
BUT: Tell me Osiris, if u love someone (mother, father, sister, girlfriend....) and vise versa (ya3ni someone loves u), and u know that inside their heart they love u, and they know that u love them, do u stop talking to them or is that enough for u to know that they love u but they don't want to talk to u????
What love is that if u refuse to talk with persons u love and they love u???

As much as we need God and personally i am always happy when i talk to him and i always feel peace in my heart, he knows how to consolidate me, HE also is very happy to talk with us ,we are his children. U don't think that he deserves at least to talk to him and share him ur life even if he knows everything??? Do u behave like this with ur father? Don't u think he will be very sad when u decide to stop talking to him just because he knows that u love him.????? Are you satisfy and happy if ur girlfriend refuse to talk with u ??? la chou? ma Osiris knows that i love him and i am a good person, why should i talk to him again.????? How this relation will make progress??? The relation with God is same as a relation with any person u love.

I don't know Osiris, but I can not convince u that God exist, because maybe u don't want to believe in his existence. Just try once and u will see who really is GOD.

[Bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by mephisto794

I have been taught that prayer is a way to 'communicate' with the Divine persons, praying gives me power to overcome difficulties, grants me the will to continue doing something despite the difficulties...

To be brief, Praying has a set of cross-religions objectives (5, if remember well), mainly:
- thanking God
- asking for a blessing, or a divine favor
- Glorifying the Lord.
- (i forgot the other two :S)

However,
This description of the prayer has been tightly bound to "educating" me that my religion is the correct one; praying with this conviction in mind made me pray with more fever.

I believe that all religions (christianity, islam, judaisme, bouddhism.....) 'claim' they are the correct ones. Praying according to their convictions is then more.... efficient? (excuse me for the term, i couldn't find an adequate one!).

Surprisingly, I see people of all religions (worshipping God, Buddha or whatever stone) getting better after praying, getting more confident, more zen...

That is good, but quite surprising to know that at most, one religion is correct, and the others just allusions, or incomplete religions!


So, is praying really communicating with God, or just a way to have a clearer mind !?

Dear dude,

the sentence highlighted doesnt neccessarily have to be true. i.e: mech daroureh mutually exclusive, especially in the narrow sense of dogma. If we boil down all religions to the essense, we find that away from the theology they all agree on the same principles, so they reinforce one another.

Goodness is a virtue,
kindness is a virtue,
compassion
forgiveness.. etc

ALSO, they all reinforce the notion that if you do the above you live a better life. Thats universal because the principles here are universal. So religions essentially don't clash on that, but on theology sure :). Also, what would you think of looking at religions as a "way to live" for a specific context and a specific people. It doesnt have to be the same religion or one true, one false, rather it can be looked upon as this religion is appropriate in this context or this people/person in this mindset to help him or her have a better life.

Lastly, on prayer. Prayer i think is a very powerful tool. It could lead to complacency like if we think: oh god please give me a car, a car a car and we don't do anything to get a car but hope God gets us a car, it aint gonna happen :)

but for instance if we look at it in another way like: what do we want and we visualize it, and we visualize how to get there or the processes we follow or use to get there then its reinforcing and positive. This is not to discount the help people get for believing in dieties or saintly persons helping them, its very beneficial i think. i pray everyday like that, but i just want to brush up on the importance of making the distinguishment between please help me (and i do nothing) and please help me help myself.

Besides visualizations and visualizing what we want or where we want to go, (which is very important because it helps us reach stages we arent there at or havent reached yet, like forgiveness for something someone done to hurt you in the past or something some event, death of a relative or loved one, to be at peace. It helps us build a connection with "where we want to be" and where we are now) :), besides that

prayer helps calm the mind. At least on a surface level you should feel calmer if you repeat a mantra or focus on the prayer or object of the prayer because you're focusing your mind and your mental energy on one object, so you're meditating. this helps calm the mind. But i think it's surface level, i.e: you will feel calmer, but you wont address the problems that arent letting feel calm all the time

what do you think?

[mephisto794]

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

ALSO, they all reinforce the notion that if you do the above you live a better life. Thats universal because the principles here are universal. So religions essentially don't clash on that, but on theology sure :). Also, what would you think of looking at religions as a "way to live" for a specific context and a specific people. [...]

[...] i just want to brush up on the importance of making the distinguishment between please help me (and i do nothing) and please help me help myself.

Boddhi,
I completely agree with you on saying that religions are mainly a certain way of living), greatly inspired by traditions. Even if the 'headlines' of a certain religion are fixed, its application varies greatly across regions and cultures.

Getting back to praying, let's consider this scenario:

• A Christian is praying: "God, help me help myself".. he somehow resolves his problems.
• A Muslim is praying: "God, help me help myself".. he somehow resolves his problems as well.
• A Druze is praying: "God, help me help myself".. he somehow resolves his problems also.
• A Jew is praying: "God, help me help myself".. he somehow resolves his problems.
• A Bouddhist is praying: "God, help me help myself".. he somehow resolves his problems.
• A stone-whorshiper is praying: "God, help me help myself".. he somehow resolves his problems.

Each community considers that the resolution of this person's problems are mostly attributed to a certain divine intervention, invisible power. I highly doubt that this "divine" is the same for the stone worhiper and the jew for instance.

I believe praying turns out to be a socially-accepted way to create an exit for a difficult circumstance.

[Abufijli]

Praying gives me strength to deal with the day to day issues of life, it helps because it makes me feel close to a being that will never let me down like the humans can on this earth. The relationship is stable but it needs you to put effort into it for you to reap the benefits. Praying is most defenitly the way God wants us to communicate with him, the tranqulity and comfort you get from it is a by product of being close to you creator. I find it to be beautiful, even though I do get lazy sometimes and don't do it five times a day as prescribed. Prayer for me has benefits beyond the tranquility that I get from it, it also helps me keep out of trouble because it makes me think before I do things, the thought is usually will God be happy with me if I do this? If the answer is no the next logical question is: If he will not be happy, how am I going to face him on while praying since I know he will not like what I've done?

Osiris,

If you love someone you show your love to them in anyway you can. For example I love my brother, if he rings me at 3am saying to me that his car has broken down on the highway and he needs to pick him up, I will not say to him sorry, I can't do it but I still love you. What Im trying to say is God has asked us to pray, and if we love him the way we say we do, then we must do what he asks of us.

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

because it makes me think before I do things, the thought is usually will God be happy with me if I do this? If the answer is no the next logical question is: If he will not be happy, how am I going to face him on while praying since I know he will not like what I've done?

I think if your "God" exists, he would be much more wiser than that. He wouldn't ask you to pray for him 5 times a day. Do the math.

Originally Posted by Abufijli

Osiris,

If you love someone you show your love to them in anyway you can. For example I love my brother, if he rings me at 3am saying to me that his car has broken down on the highway and he needs to pick him up, I will not say to him sorry, I can't do it but I still love you. What Im trying to say is God has asked us to pray, and if we love him the way we say we do, then we must do what he asks of us.

"I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time." - Friedrich Nietzsche

And hey, I would die for my brother.. don't even compare.

[Bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

Praying gives me strength to deal with the day to day issues of life, it helps because it makes me feel close to a being that will never let me down like the humans can on this earth. The relationship is stable but it needs you to put effort into it for you to reap the benefits. Praying is most defenitly the way God wants us to communicate with him, the tranqulity and comfort you get from it is a by product of being close to you creator. I find it to be beautiful, even though I do get lazy sometimes and don't do it five times a day as prescribed. Prayer for me has benefits beyond the tranquility that I get from it, it also helps me keep out of trouble because it makes me think before I do things, the thought is usually will God be happy with me if I do this? If the answer is no the next logical question is: If he will not be happy, how am I going to face him on while praying since I know he will not like what I've done?

Osiris,

If you love someone you show your love to them in anyway you can. For example I love my brother, if he rings me at 3am saying to me that his car has broken down on the highway and he needs to pick him up, I will not say to him sorry, I can't do it but I still love you. What Im trying to say is God has asked us to pray, and if we love him the way we say we do, then we must do what he asks of us.

very good abufijli,

i prayed once in a mosque, my friend taught me the motions, it was very graceful and very nice an experience, good vibrations

holding oneself to higher ideal (in this case God) is very good too, but wouldnt you think this "higher ideal" can be even higher? continously, i.E: not static?


Mephisto,
I do not think it matters too much if same god or different. maybe these things are trivial to him (or her, or them) :)

IF prayer benefits, then why not? pray each to his own way to benefit .. very good, better people