Pope: condoms not the answer in AIDS fight

[Salome]

Originally Posted by BOILER

Allow me to debate with you since your words are worthy to be read unlike other posts coming from muslims or athesits, talking with a predetermined goal.

The Pope hasn't said anything that contradicts with the words of Bible, or the teachings of Christ.

Christianity will not alter itself to adapt with the poor people in Africa.

If you are a true christian, a believer, live as a christian, and you will find his words true.
If you don't want to live as a christian, you won't take his words into consideration in the first place, so he's adressing people as the head of Church and he is obliged to say what he said.

Do you want him to say, condoms are good, you can always make safe sex with whores, you can always cheat on your wives.
Hey Women, use condoms to cheat on your men.
As long as you don't catch Aids, cause this is what matters.
Let Christianity, our religon go to hell, as long as u don't catch Aids.

Aids is such a disease which wil not differentiate by religion.

So either the pope talks to devoted christian africans, and then of course he has a point, or if he addresses just ordinary people then he can not await them to be devoted christians. Thus for them he can not go against a method which can save lives.

I dont know what statistics show about the condom preventing further spread of the disease in Africa, certainly it shall have an effect. The main point is that whole new young generations are infected by birth, this has to be stopped, and knowing how limited help the West provides to Africa, things like using a condom can make a difference.

[Red Phoenix]

hehe, good ad :)

[MindFree]

Originally Posted by abientot

Exactly!

Whether you agree with him or not, the pope spoke from a Christian point of view which does not not approve of pre-marital sex and the use of artificial contraception methods. So if you are a person who does what the pope says, that should imply that you're a committed Christian, and in that case you would not be having pre-marital sex. Therefore the use of condoms and HIV would not be an issue for you to begin with. You cannot take what you like of the teachings and throw the parts that doent suit you away (That is if you were to practice a certain religion).
Halla2 other christians and non-christians, who do not care about what the pope says, have the complete freedom to have sex, use condomns, etc... and would not be affected by the pope 'banning' the use of condoms. So let's drop the 'pope is killing people' argument.

The point is, you either abide by the whole thing or you dont, and you have complete freedom in making that choice. Ma nel2at l chaghleh men danaba w nemcheh.

But in that case the pope should have said: we are against the use of condoms for the reasons u mentioned above, he shouldnt have said that condoms make aids problem worse.

[lady_forever]

what he meant was so simple instead of analysing his words in different aspects he was clear saying that condoms aint allowed so those people will stick to one partner instead of having lots ..Maybe it was his only way to let people sex outside marriage not allowed cause married couples can use many ways not to conceive ..i am sure he didnt mean it as contraseptive but as so people think twice before they have many relations outside their marriage...and babies shouldn;t be born with virus that they aint responsible of

[abientot]

Originally Posted by Danny Z

Spare us the point of view of the church, the pope recognizes Judaism as a religion while his religion is supposed to supersede Judaism and he also recognizes Islam that came after his religion and he calls for a dialogue of religions so as you say he either abides by the whole thing or he doesn't...Either he recognizes condoms and people who don't use and people who engage in premarital sex and also dialogues with them or he shouldn't recognize other religions as well. What he is doing is hypocrisy.

Chou khass hay.. bi hay? kif khalatton bi ba3don hol? The pope gave the church's point of view,and whether you want to listen to him or not is a personal choice. So the pope did not deny the right for people to use condoms or have sex, or do anything else, he just explained the church's point of view from these things.

[abientot]

Originally Posted by MindFree

But in that case the pope should have said: we are against the use of condoms for the reasons u mentioned above, he shouldnt have said that condoms make aids problem worse.

You took part of the sentence MindFree, he said they make the problem worse by giving people a sense of security which is not 100% accurate, since condoms do not fully protect people from getting infected by HIV.

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by abientot

Exactly!

Whether you agree with him or not, the pope spoke from a Christian point of view which does not not approve of pre-marital sex and the use of artificial contraception methods. So if you are a person who does what the pope says, that should imply that you're a committed Christian, and in that case you would not be having pre-marital sex. Therefore the use of condoms and HIV would not be an issue for you to begin with. You cannot take what you like of the teachings and throw the parts that doent suit you away (That is if you were to practice a certain religion).
Halla2 other christians and non-christians, who do not care about what the pope says, have the complete freedom to have sex, use condomns, etc... and would not be affected by the pope 'banning' the use of condoms. So let's drop the 'pope is killing people' argument.

The point is, you either abide by the whole thing or you dont, and you have complete freedom in making that choice. Ma nel2at l chaghleh men danaba w nemcheh.

Originally Posted by abientot

Or maybe the people infected with the virus could use their brain and control themselves so as not to infect other people and have children who will be born with it.

I agree with most of your points above. I am not saying that condom use is the ideal solution to AIDS in Africa, or condoms are the ultimate cure and all that.. I never said that!

Fine if he is against condoms and all that, but who gave him the right to claim that "On the contrary, it [condom use] increases the problem" ?
How does he know?
Why does he conclude?
How on earth does condom use make the AIDS problem worse?
Doesn't it help, not even 1%?
Don't you think that if condoms were massively used in Africa, don't you think that this would have saved thousands of lives? What about children born with AIDS? Don't you think that without a proper education and without the use of condom and taking into account the cultural traditions over there, don't you think that this child, and when he will be 20-year-old, he will infect dozens of girls?

Please, for everyone, answer these questions..

Thank you!

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by abientot

You took part of the sentence MindFree, he said they make the problem worse by giving people a sense of security which is not 100% accurate, since condoms do not fully protect people from getting infected by HIV.

Condoms, like all contraceptives, are not 100% foolproof. Most condom failure is due to human factors such as the failure to use condoms consistently.

While condoms are not foolproof, they are highly effective in preventing HIV infection. I don't want to include sources from the internet here, you can all go and look for these, we are all educated here and we know for sure that condoms can prevent sexually transmitted diseases for up to 98%. That means, for every 100 protected sexual relations with HIV involved, only 2 relations will result in the transmission of the HIV to the other partner.

Don't you think that this percentage would have saved some lives? Just math and nothing else..

[abientot]

Originally Posted by Osiris

I agree with most of your points above. I am not saying that condom use is the ideal solution to AIDS in Africa, or condoms are the ultimate cure and all that.. I never said that!

Fine if he is against condoms and all that, but who gave him the right to claim that "On the contrary, it [condom use] increases the problem" ?
How does he know?
Why does he conclude?
How on earth does condom use make the AIDS problem worse?
Doesn't it help, not even 1%?
Don't you think that if condoms were massively used in Africa, don't you think that this would have saved thousands of lives? What about children born with AIDS? Don't you think that without a proper education and without the use of condom and taking into account the cultural traditions over there, don't you think that this child, and when he will be 20-year-old, he will infect dozens of girls?

Please, for everyone, answer these questions..

Thank you!

He claimed that they increase the problem by giving a false sense of security since they are not 100% safe.

To answer your questions:

How does he know? It's a known fact

Why does he conclude? It is part of he has to do as a pope

How on earth does condom use make the AIDS problem worse? From the pope's perspective, again, by giving a false sense of security. Condoms are not magical, they reduce the risk, but you can still get infected.

Doesn't it help, not even 1%? Of course it does when you choose to have sex, but again here we're talking from a Christian point of view.

Don't you think that if condoms were massively used in Africa, don't you think that this would have saved thousands of lives? What about children born with AIDS? Don't you think that without a proper education and without the use of condom and taking into account the cultural traditions over there, don't you think that this child, and when he will be 20-year-old, he will infect dozens of girls? Again, true, but keep in mind that the pope represented the church's point of view, so the fact that you're choosing to have sex obviously means that the pope's stances are irrelevant to you and wont affect you sex life.

I am not saying that people should not use condoms or have sex or that condoms do not reduce the risk of HIV infection; but this is another issue. What is being discussed here is the church's stance on these issues, which is perfectly logical for a Christian who practices his religion as i explained in my first post. For others, as a i said before, the pope's and church's stances are irrelevant and it would be up to the person to be conscious enough and have safe sex.

[BOILER]

abientot, if they didn't understand the words of Pope, they won't understand yours, or maybe they don't want to understand.

For once and all, if you aren't living your Christianity, why listen to what the Pope is saying?

If you're not a chrisitain, why do you care if the Pope said this?

You will have your safe sex [], and you won't catch Aids.