Pope: condoms not the answer in AIDS fight

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by alabellez

Plus if someone married someone HIV positive what's the pope's solution for that?! i mean should he have unsafe sex with his significant other and get infected?! or should he use a condom and prevent it ?!!

I've come across this:

"He [the pope] has, however, assembled a panel of scientists and theologians to consider the narrow question of whether to allow condoms for married couples, one of whom has HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

It is still not clear how the pope will rule on the matter, said Allen, who is also a senior correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter."

From: Pope visits Africa, reaffirms ban on condoms - CNN.com


So, the Pope needs to assemble a panel of "experts" to figure out if it's fine for a married couple to use a condom if one partner is HIV positive?
It can't get more entertaining than this!

[Red Phoenix]

if u want to fix ur car, go to the baker.

if u want to fight a virus, go to the pope.

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Osiris

I've come across this:

"He [the pope] has, however, assembled a panel of scientists and theologians to consider the narrow question of whether to allow condoms for married couples, one of whom has HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

It is still not clear how the pope will rule on the matter, said Allen, who is also a senior correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter."

From: Pope visits Africa, reaffirms ban on condoms - CNN.com


So, the Pope needs to assemble a panel of "experts" to figure out if it's fine for a married couple to use a condom if one partner is HIV positive?
It can't get more entertaining than this!

That's weird I thought he was against preMartial sex but not against Condoms specifically... I mean after marriage no one should interfere that's like saying don't drink medicine... "???"

[BOILER]

Originally Posted by spacecreature

You can agree all you want with him, but it doesn't make it right! People who think like him are part of the problem. You know abstinence is a joke, and even priests can't seem to keep it in their pants! So I don't c how banning condom use will put an end to the aids epidemic...
And to those silly posters who think only whores have HIV, you should go out more! And remember people with Aids are the victims (and u don't have to sleep with many to get it, just once is enough) so don't treat them like they are some sort of criminals!

Doesn't religion teach compassion anymore!!?? (for those who follow such things )

Yes, religon teach love and compassion.
Where did you see the opposite of that?

Concerning your post, I can't argue with you or others about what The Pope is saying.
Try to understand it first.

[Dalzi]

That's weird I thought he was against preMartial sex but not against Condoms specifically... I mean after marriage no one should interfere that's like saying don't drink medicine... "???"

In case you don't know, popes have always considered sex as a curse that came with the sin of Adam and Eve; a form of evil that is a necessity for reproduction The hilarious thing is when he speaks bad of condoms when unmarried couples travel for his pilgrimage as he blesses America. His church is an abomination to the teachings of Jesus Christ with a history of crime and rape.

Originally Posted by BOILER

Yes, religon teach love and compassion.
Where did you see the opposite of that?

History dude.

[Danny Z]

The pope spoke about condoms when he was in Africa, Africa where half the people have aids and where religion plays a good part in their life. He spoke against using condoms to people who actually have a big chance to catch aids and listen to him, what does this make him? How is this any different from inciting people to commit an act that leads to death, in other words inciting on committing a crime is a crime in every society.
By the church principles he should get excommunication for doing this, oops i forgot he's the one who excommunicates people...

[lebanesecanadian]

I neither agree with the pope nor usually quote from the National review but this article seemed interesting:

From Saint Peter’s Square to Harvard Square
Media coverage of papal comments on AIDS in Africa is March madness.

By Kathryn Jean Lopez

‘We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates, which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working.”

So notes Edward C. Green, director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, in response to papal press comments en route to Africa this week.

Benedict XVI said, in response to a French reporter’s question asking him to defend the Church’s position on fighting the spread of AIDS, characterized by the reporter as “frequently considered unrealistic and ineffective”:

I would say that this problem of AIDS cannot be overcome with advertising slogans. If the soul is lacking, if Africans do not help one another, the scourge cannot be resolved by distributing condoms; quite the contrary, we risk worsening the problem. The solution can only come through a twofold commitment: firstly, the humanization of sexuality, in other words a spiritual and human renewal bringing a new way of behaving towards one another; and secondly, true friendship, above all with those who are suffering, a readiness — even through personal sacrifice — to be present with those who suffer. And these are the factors that help and bring visible progress.

“The pope is correct,” Green told National Review Online Wednesday, “or put it a better way, the best evidence we have supports the pope’s comments. He stresses that “condoms have been proven to notbe effective at the ‘level of population.’”

“There is,” Green adds, “a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction ‘technology’ such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by ‘compensating’ or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology.”

Green added: “I also noticed that the pope said ‘monogamy’ was the best single answer to African AIDS, rather than ‘abstinence.’ The best and latest empirical evidence indeed shows that reduction in multiple and concurrent sexual partners is the most important single behavior change associated with reduction in HIV-infection rates (the other major factor is male circumcision).”

And while, as Travis Kavulla writes from Kenya today, the international media will ignore all sorts of fascinating new stories about church and civilizational growth in favor of a sexier, albeit way-too-familiar storyline, Green has some encouraging news: The pope is not alone. “More and more AIDS experts are coming to accept the above. The two countries with the worst HIV epidemics, Swaziland and Botswana, have both launched campaigns to discourage multiple and concurrent partners, and to encourage fidelity.”

The pope added during that Q&A, “I would say that our double effort is to renew the human person internally, to give spiritual and human strength to a way of behaving that is just towards our own body and the other person’s body; and this capacity of suffering with those who suffer, to remain present in trying situations.”

We need to, in other words, treat people as people. Reason with them and show them there is a better way to live, respectful of themselves and others. It’s a common-sense message that isn’t madness whether you’re in Africa or dealing with hormonal American teenagers. It’s a hard message to hear over the same-old silly debates, parodies, and dismissals. But it’s one that is based on real life—and acknowledged not just in Saint Peter’s Square but in Harvard Square.

I'm pretty sure the pope said what he said without checking any data or evidence on the ground and is coming from a religious doctrinaire point of view and I see why many (including me) find it highly offensive and dangerous but in a twisted kind of way he might turn out to be correct.

[abientot]

Originally Posted by coralie

i dont think the sarcasm will help much Osi .

let us not jump to conclusions , we all know how journalistes find a way to twist words or to cut sentences to make an explosif head line . i am sure the pope is not that stupid to say such a thing maybe the red highlighted part can help more understand what he realy meant . it might not be the opinion of many or the medical opinion but it is the opinion of the church (priests and religious figures) .

Exactly!

Whether you agree with him or not, the pope spoke from a Christian point of view which does not not approve of pre-marital sex and the use of artificial contraception methods. So if you are a person who does what the pope says, that should imply that you're a committed Christian, and in that case you would not be having pre-marital sex. Therefore the use of condoms and HIV would not be an issue for you to begin with. You cannot take what you like of the teachings and throw the parts that doent suit you away (That is if you were to practice a certain religion).
Halla2 other christians and non-christians, who do not care about what the pope says, have the complete freedom to have sex, use condomns, etc... and would not be affected by the pope 'banning' the use of condoms. So let's drop the 'pope is killing people' argument.

The point is, you either abide by the whole thing or you dont, and you have complete freedom in making that choice. Ma nel2at l chaghleh men danaba w nemcheh.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by abientot

Exactly!

Whether you agree with him or not, the pope spoke from a Christian point of view which does not not approve of pre-marital sex and the use of artificial contraception methods. So if you are a person who does what the pope says, that should imply that you're a committed Christian, and in that case you would not be having pre-marital sex. Therefore the use of condoms and HIV would not be an issue for you to begin with. You cannot take what you like of the teachings and throw the parts that doent suit you away (That is if you were to practice a certain religion).
Halla2 other christians and non-christians, who do not care about what the pope says, have the complete freedom to have sex, use condomns, etc... and would not be affected by the pope 'banning' the use of condoms. So let's drop the 'pope is killing people' argument.

The point is, you either abide by the whole thing or you dont, and you have complete freedom in making that choice. Ma nel2at l chaghleh men danaba w nemcheh.

There is fear on behalf of religious figures to openly speak of what is wrong or right in the name of religion because they're going to be labelled intolerant. Hell yeah, intolerant let it be. Had I been in his place i'd bash them (not the condoms) night and day. In some countries people are dying from hunger yet they can't manage to stick to a freaking partner who doesn't happen to have aids. You don't get aids if you don't sleep with whoever happens to cross your path unless the disease is transmitted by other means (one of which is a cheating partner of course). And just when you wish it stops at adults getting infected you notice the uglier side to it; you have the infected innocent children born from those apes.

To be honest with you, i don't feel any sympathy towards reckless irresponsible dirty adults. We all have brains; they should be able to distinguish between what is good for their health and life and what isn't.

If you catch aids from leading the wrong life, then serves you right, very simple. Neither the Pope nor anyone else should care.

And of course since you mentioned contraceptives; Christianity doesn't ban contraceptives, the Pope does. Where in the name of Jesus have you read anything about 'the sin of contraceptives'? Banning contraceptives is as bad as not granting divorce which is a bright invitation to adultery; horror attributed to Jesus who's as innocent from it as God is. Let's not mix the message of Christ with cults.

[Red Phoenix]

i know this might sound harsh and all, but what is exactly the PoV (point of vue) of the church ?

is this the opinion of jesus on HIV protection or the opinion of a bunch of old as trees cardinals on this non-religious topic?