Islam - opinions, questions & answers

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Kasaprov

The quraan, just like the bible, clearly states that the earth is flat, not only that, the quraan clearly gives you the idea that earth is fixed and the moon/sun rotate around it, add to that, the quraan talks about day and night as a creation when we all know that darkness is simply the absence of light and not something in it self, anyway just look at the verses with clear and hilarious scientific mistakes in Quraan :

1- "the earth was created in 6 days" : science shows it took billions of years for earth to become inhibited with animals and humans, obviously the quran states otherwise.

أليوم عندنا بألف سنة مما تعدون
Earth "the Planet" was created in 6000 days. It's the Bible that says man was created then. The Qur'an says that God decided to send man to earth which was already created and inhabited without saying when man was sent.

Al-Baqara; 2:30

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً قَالُواْ أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاء وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

2- "He is created from a drop (of sperm) emitted Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs." : an idea that came from ancient greek scientists is that sperm comes from the kidney's, obviously quran copied this idea like many others .

Give me the soura and number.

3- The Quran states, just like the bible, that a virgin woman gave birth to a child ! not only that, the child could speak in one day !! (Qur'an 19:29-33)

Yes. The miracle of Jesus.

4- "And he followed a road; Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. (Qur'an 18:85-86)"

Al-Kahf; 18: 83-86

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَن ذِي الْقَرْنَيْنِ قُلْ سَأَتْلُو عَلَيْكُم مِّنْهُ ذِكْرًا
إِنَّا مَكَّنَّا لَهُ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَآتَيْنَاهُ مِن كُلِّ شَيْءٍ سَبَبًا
فَأَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا
حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِندَهَا قَوْمًا قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَن تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَن تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا

This is the story of "Thoulqarnain"... The setting of the sun here is poetic 'as you watch the sun fade behind the horizon'. Have you heard of "symbolism"?

And for people who dont know, Quran writers thought that the sun had a resting place, in a mud spring :) , so the bible writers decided the sun should turn around a flat rectangle while the quran writers decided it should rest, amazingly both writers should would win the noble prize of science :)

This is not true. Go read the Qur'an and see for yourself.

5- I like also how people explain the word "da7aha" as making something "egg shaped", the word "da7a" means "Madda" or in english to spread like a carpet, how was it deduced that da7aha means making it like a ball is out of my league, it seems people tend to believe whatever they want.

Whichever way you are to take the word; the complete book clearly shows the meaning behind it. Relate the analysis to other verses. The Qur'an is one piece, not a line or two.

[Kasparov]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

It is not a fact that they were created by man. You should say "claimed to be created by man".

No it is a fact, mean wrote the books, they "claim" god inspired them, my sentence stands .

[AUBite]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

It is not a fact that they were created by man. You should say "claimed to be created by man".

It is not a fact that they weren't.
Ce qui peut être affirmé sans preuves peut être nié sans preuves.

[Kasparov]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

Originally posted by Kasparov:



I have a friend of mine who is from Libya, he calls an egg da7ya. I enquired about this word's meaning with our arabic teacher at the time and he said it means egg. It is a widely accpeted translation for the word.

I don't need a friend from libya, check any arabic dictionary, "Lisan al Arab" is a great reference, here is what it says :

دحَى الشيءَ يدحَاهُ دَحْيًا (يائيٌّ) بسطهُ. والإبل ساقها

تدحَّى الشيءُ تدحيًّا تبسّط
الدَّحْيَة القردة الأنثى.
والدِّحْية رئيس الجند ج دِحَاءٌ
الأُدْحِيُّ والإِدحيُّ مبيض النعام ومنزلٌ للقمر.
و المِدحاة خشبةٌ يُدْحى بها الصبي فتمر على الأرض لا تأتي على شيء إلا اجتحفتهُ

Unlike what u say, "da7a" is widely accepted as "spreading out", regards .

[Kasparov]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

Omeros,

I have read the life of Muhamad and never came across the things you have put forward. The prophet did not learn with a priest, and he was illiterate so it was impossible for him to read and write the bible. This is fantasy at best. The Quran is a book which no one can replicate in its eloquence, especially for an illiterate man. God has rightfully challenged all humanity to come up with one sura like the Quran, no one has been able to even come close.

What you read is muslim history, what Omeros mentioned is hidden from any muslim text book, I remember the priest was called "Kahen el No7ayra" (the priest of the lake if im not mistaken)

[Kasparov]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

أليوم عندنا بألف سنة مما تعدون
Earth "the Planet" was created in 6000 days. It's the Bible that says man was created then. The Qur'an says that God decided to send man to earth which was already created and inhabited without saying when man was sent.

Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)?

As i said, if you consider the day to be 1 human day, 1000 years, 50000 years it doesnt matter, because earth took billions of years to be created with the life we have on it, humans existed around 6000 years ago, can u imagine how wrong the verse in Quran and The bible is ?

[Kasparov]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

Give me the soura and number.

Man in quran was created from :

A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]

Please tell god to make up his mind and choose what u like !

Originally Posted by Dalzi

Yes. The miracle of Jesus.

So if i tell u im an Alien u will believe me ??

Originally Posted by Dalzi

Al-Kahf; 18: 83-86

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَن ذِي الْقَرْنَيْنِ قُلْ سَأَتْلُو عَلَيْكُم مِّنْهُ ذِكْرًا
إِنَّا مَكَّنَّا لَهُ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَآتَيْنَاهُ مِن كُلِّ شَيْءٍ سَبَبًا
فَأَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا
حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِندَهَا قَوْمًا قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَن تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَن تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا

This is the story of "Thoulqarnain"... The setting of the sun here is poetic 'as you watch the sun fade behind the horizon'. Have you heard of "symbolism"?

Why did u consider it poetic ? obviously the man SAW the son go into a pool, and is proud to reach that place that no one came upon, its actually not poetic at all, i didnt know that Quran is a poetry book !

Originally Posted by Dalzi

This is not true. Go read the Qur'an and see for yourself.

Thanks, i studied islam from the sunna and shiite point of view, and Im showing you the verses to prove it, here you go :

Till, when he [the traveller Zul-qarnain] reached
the setting-place of the sun,
he found it going down into a muddy spring, ...
-- Sura Sura 18:86

Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun,
he found it rising on a people
for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.
-- Sura Sura 18:90

I like it ! some people live next to the place where the sun rises, so they get burned from it, is that also poetic ???

Originally Posted by Dalzi

Whichever way you are to take the word; the complete book clearly shows the meaning behind it. Relate the analysis to other verses. The Qur'an is one piece, not a line or two.

I gave the meaning of the word from "lisan al arab", the quran uses the word "Kawwar" to point out something round, "Da7a" to point out something spread out .

[Phoenician]

Originally Posted by Omeros

look im a old member from the beginning of this forum i see ppl attacking Christianity i see ppl asking such a question make u so nervous AND this is the first time someone somebody dares to talk like this so enjoy the freedom:D
of brain

I don't exactly get your comment. What question? First time someone dares to talk like that? Well I don't think you are familiar with the Shiite school fo thought (which is how all Muslims should approach faith). Questions about the existence of God and the truth of Koran are questions every Muslim should ask. The more we (Muslims) search for those answers the more convinced we are of our faith. The Shiite scholars spend years learning all kinds of philosophies from all over, reading all different books and papers. A simple example would be to read Muhamad Baqer Alsadr, who was a staunch opponent of Communism for example. While you may disagree with our beliefs you must recognize that Muslims (at least historically speaking because today they are living in the dark ages) have the spirit of questioning and the drive to use reason, as opposed to swallowing what an institution tells them.

[Abu Ruman]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

If you have other than "claims" put them forward. Asking questions (since you don't know) is different to hypothesising nonsense. We are the ones who know the Qur'an and it's very easy to understand from your posts that you haven't even cut through a couple of pages. I have no doubt about that. A Qur'an "reader" cannot say what you say. It's detectable.

Wow, I didnt know there is a 'Quran reader' measuring apparatus available.

I should get me one of those.

I am positive that you haven't read the Qur'an. The Qur'an is only in Arabic. Translations are to aid, but you can't recite in English. I've come across ridiculous translations. If there's something Muslims are ought to be doing, it's definently translating something that makes more sense.

Of course not in Arabic (or at least understanding it). I can slowly read at a pace, which will take a whole day, let alone understanding no more than 20% of what I read. But what portion of the entire Muslim populace can understand the Quran in Arabic? Are you going to disqualify them on that basis too? What about all the American converts, which converted on the basis of what they read in the english Qurans?

Thats my point.

[Abu Ruman]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

I just read that post, what exactly would you like me to reply to?

Well it was in reply to some of the alleged points you made.

I just thought maybe you (or someone else) would have addressed them.