Forgiveness

[coralie]

Originally Posted by faithful

Coralie, i agree with you when you said: i can forgive but i cant forget.

What i meant about forgetting is that when you see or remember the person who hurt you, you won't feel the same pain anymore if you forgave him. And not to totally forget what he did to you. But his effect on you will change.

Inno why you must feel the pain to the rest of your life? he doesn't deserve to spend all your energy on anger and hate. Its like he owns you for the rest of your life. Are you getting me?

i can only answr you with this quote it say it all : I can forgive, but I cannot forget, is only another way of saying, I will not forgive. Forgiveness ought to be like a cancelled note - torn in two, and burned up, so that it never can be shown against one.

so basicly if i am not abl to forget means i am not able to forgive ! and believe me cheating is some thing you do not forget easely !

[Fakhr eddine 1618]

Ok guys, thank you all especially faithfull for giving attention to my statement in the political thread

Now, what I think is the following

Le verbe "donner" a une echelle de valeur comme suit
1- La premiere marche la plus simple : Donner
C'est quand quelqu'un donne quelque chose qui lui appartient a une autre personne

- La deuxieme marche qui est plus difficile : Se donner
C'est quand quelqu'un donne soi meme a une autre personne, comme les parents qui sacrificent toute leur vie pour leurs enfants, ou comme Jesus qui s'est donne lui-meme pour sauver l'humanite

- Las troisieme march qui est la plus difficile: Pardonner
C'est "DONNER AU DELA DU DON", c'est aussi meme plus difficile que se donner

For this reason, I find it difficult to start spreading charity to others whenever they ask for forgiveness, I believe it should be hard for them to be accepted so they do not repeat it again their mistake

However, when I read your posts here, I see that you concentrate too much on the human side, UUUUFFFFFFFFFF

I want to get rid from this human side which for me represents weakness, in forgiveness as well as in other subjects, i remember other thread where I debated the existence of God with Kakou and weakness of human

Anyway to conclude, Mahyar has a strong profile, otherwise i wouldn't have "harched" him

[Xena]

I only forgive those i can't get rid of...

edit: so that i won't sound cold...people i can't get rid of are : family and people i love and can't live without!

[coralie]

Originally Posted by Fakhr eddine 1618

Ok guys, thank you all especially faithfull for giving attention to my statement in the political thread

Now, what I think is the following

Le verbe "donner" a une echelle de valeur comme suit
1- La premiere marche la plus simple : Donner
C'est quand quelqu'un donne quelque chose qui lui appartient a une autre personne

- La deuxieme marche qui est plus difficile : Se donner
C'est quand quelqu'un donne soi meme a une autre personne, comme les parents qui sacrificent toute leur vie pour leurs enfants, ou comme Jesus qui s'est donne lui-meme pour sauver l'humanite

- Las troisieme march qui est la plus difficile: Pardonner
C'est "DONNER AU DELA DU DON", c'est aussi meme plus difficile que se donner

For this reason, I find it difficult to start spreading charity to others whenever they ask for forgiveness, I believe it should be hard for them to be accepted so they do not repeat it again their mistake

However, when I read your posts here, I see that you concentrate too much on the human side, UUUUFFFFFFFFFF

I want to get rid from this human side which for me represents weakness, in forgiveness as well as in other subjects, i remember other thread where I debated the existence of God with Kakou and weakness of human

Anyway to conclude, Mahyar has a strong profile, otherwise i wouldn't have "harched" him

let me start with the part hilighted in red . you find it difficult to forgive (spread charity as you call it) whenever they ask for forgiveness ? well this is a great blessing if THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS (if you meant by THEY les coupables) sometimes they dont even bother ! when they ask means they confessed and say i am guilty forgive me ! what about if they never ask and you have to forgive ! now if you did nt mean the guilty ppl and mean ppl around you asking you to forgive w khalass walaw zet warak this is une autre paires de manche

now the second side .. ya fakhr chou osstak ? enno what do you want us to concentrate on if not our "human" side ??

[Fakhr eddine 1618]

Originally Posted by Xena

I only forgive those i can't get rid of...

edit: so that i won't sound cold...people i can't get rid of are : family and people i love and can't live without!

100% subjectivity

+

100% weakness (although you try to deny)

+

Fear of Living alone

[Fakhr eddine 1618]

Originally Posted by coralie

let me start with the part hilighted in red . you find it difficult to forgive (spread charity as you call it) whenever they ask for forgiveness ? well this is a great blessing if THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS (if you meant by THEY les coupables) sometimes they dont even bother ! when they ask means they confessed and say i am guilty forgive me ! what about if they never ask and you have to forgive ! now if you did nt mean the guilty ppl and mean ppl around you asking you to forgive w khalass walaw zet warak this is une autre paires de manche

now the second side .. ya fakhr chou osstak ? enno what do you want us to concentrate on if not our "human" side ??

OK, Your posts always make sense

But I strongly recommend that you read carefully the 3 first posts of this thread
I get the feeling that they are not forgiving or looking for forgiveness for a certain reason related to a certain case, they want to do it because they are looking for freedom, it is like they are prisonner to an idea and want to be free, it is like they are liberating themselves.

So this is what I meant in human.

For me, I decided not to listen to my emotions or to my sensations or my weakness, I decided to anlyse the cases case by case and be solid and severe enough to make the other collapse and pay their mistakes while I have cool blood
I am not anymore that small little kid that is eternally seeking to be good in order to satisfy his mom or his teacher,
I decide to be fair, to have conditions, to take and give

(Allah yestor ma oukhlas bi jhannam)

[Xena]

Originally Posted by Fakhr eddine 1618

100% subjectivity

sure! what's wrong with that? should i be objective toward my own decisions?

100% weakness (although you try to deny)

please elaborate, and tell me how i'm denying it!

Fear of Living alone

Bien sure, and i admit it! i'm afraid to end up alone!

[Claudia]

I am a person who likes to forgive. If someone hurts me I won't spend hours and hours thinking "Oh I will make a very good plan to ***** your life, you'll see...". This is not my nature. I will think about what happened, sometimes I talk with friends I trust just to know if the person had any excuse to do what he/she did, and when I realize I was totally innocent in this story, I just move on. All religions and humanitarian organizations say we should forgive. But forgiveness has Conditions:
1- the person must be sorrow for what he did (otherwise he will do the same sooner or later)
2- the person have to say "I am sorry" to the ones he offended
3- the person has to repair (or try to) the problems he caused

If someone does anything wrong we can forgive her, but this doesn't mean she is already forgiven. You can't kill a person and then think "Oh her mother is a christian or a muslim, so she will forgive me for sure!!! Next time I'll kill her husband!".....

By other words, if someone hurt me I don't wish him/her anything bad but I won't invite the person to dinner with me anymore... If a politician is a corrupt I forgive him, but I won't vote on him anymore.
Another example: someone stoles my handbag and I know who he is even if I don't have evident proofs to go to the police. I can forgive him, but obviously I won't trust him anymore. Just because you forgive a person nothing obligates you to trust your friend like before.

In the cases where someone did a very bad thing and remain proud for what he had done, then I still don't wish them anything bad and I stop to think about her. Her bad heart is her problem, not mine, and sooner or later Life (and God) will make Justice.

I just want to add something else: more difficult than forgive others is to forgive Yourself!

[Claudia]

Originally Posted by Fakhr eddine 1618

For me, I decided not to listen to my emotions or to my sensations or my weakness, I decided to anlyse the cases case by case and be solid and severe enough to make the other collapse and pay their mistakes while I have cool blood
I am not anymore that small little kid that is eternally seeking to be good in order to satisfy his mom or his teacher,
I decide to be fair, to have conditions, to take and give

(Allah yestor ma oukhlas bi jhannam)

You have a point, Fakhr. Sometimes punishment is needed to make people see and understand they can't do everything they want. But you need to forgive them in your heart. Hate or range will turn out your enemies,not theirs. Watch Spiderman 3 and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Claudia]

Originally Posted by DL

I honestly wish you not to ever face this situation of either cheating or being cheated at! I prefer that you would disagree with me rather than you taste the bitterness of this situation!

If someone is cheating on you you're free to accept her back or not. And your decision belongs only to yourself. But you can forgive her taking off your heart all the anger you feel. You can wish her the best, you should remember only the best moments you had with her (not the bad ones) because even if you don't want her back, you are still forgiving her in your heart. But if you go tell to all your friends that your ex is a b... then you are not forgiving her, and that is not healthy, imo.