The existence of God

[WiseCookie]

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

If God exists, does he have to be in the personified sense of Greek Mythology or the Mono-theist books?

Then I think the question should be changed to:

"Is there a higher power ?"

[Bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

Then I think the question should be changed to:

"Is there a higher power ?"

that creates a duality between a higher power and a lower power :) what makes you think a higherpower is interested in dualities

[WiseCookie]

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

that creates a duality between a higher power and a lower power :) what makes you think a higherpower is interested in dualities

Not necessarily. A higher power can only mean that there's a power higher than humans. If you want to consider humans as lower powers, then I guess it could work since it's earthly power in a way.

[Dark Angel]

It is always a very interesting yet disturbing subject when the discussion revolves around the existence of God. Ironically if anyone was to present a definitive answer, this subject will no longer be open for debate, and it will either be buried deep in some pages in some book on some shelf in some library, or you’ll all be busy building huge statues of hmm divine scale.

I want to say that it all comes back down to faith, but it is not exactly the case. It comes down to whether or not we want to believe that there is a higher purpose to existence. I have plenty to live for, so do many of you, but I know for sure that my life will not be the same the minute I take the sense of purpose out of it all.

Voltaire once said in answer to this very question at hands that if God didn’t exist, we should have invented him. Many do interpret this as his way of saying there is no God without angering the church. I disagree with this interpretation and I am positive that he was referring to the consequences of the idea that is God, and how deeply it has affected and will affect the course of humanity overall, our set of values are linked in more ways than one to the idea of the divine, regardless of our ethnicity or religious background. It is not clear as to which affected the other more, did the idea of God affect our set of values or did our values affect our conception of God, either ways the result is the same, both concepts are very intermingled and intertwined. Some people tend to delineate between a set of values built on the bill of human rights and ethics and so on, and they forget that those rights are rooted in the very idea of God, hence the freedom of worship.

Christians believe they acquire the holy spirit through baptism, in simpler ways they phrase it as “God is in our hearts”, Gibran claims he is in the heart of God.

At any rate, my world will never be the same without ever aspiring to something better, purer, deeper and more meaningful, something divine. It doesn’t matter if we invented the Divine or he created us, we now depend on each other and I like going down that path hand in hand with God.

[Fakhr eddine 1618]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

Then I think the question should be changed to:

"Is there a higher power ?"

Whether there is Higher Power or not, the problem is in the human being himself , ye3ni better to change the subject to "WHY HUMANS ALWAYS SEEK A HIGHER POWER"

In old times , people were seeing the mud making brown color in Nahr Ibrahim so they were considering it the blood of Adonis killed by the bull of cedars. Why? because they could not explain the phisical fact so they were believing its coming form higher power

So whenever humans fail to explain something, they immediately consider Higher Power. I remember very well how a man and his wife close to me wanted to get a boy after they lost someone and they had only girls, they went to pray to God and wear Mar Chabel uniform and ..... and after the boy was born, they also repeated the acts of thanks to God because he gave them a boy. But the truth is that today you can go to any doctor and get a special advice and treatment and get your boy because it is not God who decided on it, Doctors can do it today

To generalise more, it is not only that humans seeks god whenever they fail to understand something, also because they are weak. When they can not reach something normally, they start praying or finding justifications.

If someone comes and beat you and steal your money and kill your mother, and you can not do him anything, you will say God will punish him and he will go to hell after death. So you are trying to justify your "incapacity" by finding a mystirious way to get revenge

Exactly like what happened with first christians who were slaves and have nothing to win in their lives, they were believing in second life to get compensation

To conclude ya Kakou, I am not juif, I am not an agressive person, I am trying to find explanation to the world and the humans behavior around me, this will help me to better understand myself. But I was just replying to your post becaue the way you describe Jesus in your life made me feel some weakness in your approach

[WiseCookie]

Originally Posted by Fakhr eddine 1618

In old times , people were seeing the mud making brown color in Nahr Ibrahim so they were considering it the blood of Adonis killed by the bull of cedars. Why? because they could not explain the phisical fact so they were believing its coming form higher power

That's completely fine but if you're talking about religions, such as Christianity, because this is the one I'm most familiar with. It's basic tenants do not explain to you why the earth is red or the sky is blue. It goes beyond that, into the human heart and mind.

Here' s another example: You do not teach a child how to speak when he's first born right? He just utters nonsense for a while and then after a few years he can speak in coherent sentences. Same thing applies to humanity as a whole.

So whenever humans fail to explain something, they immediately consider Higher Power. I remember very well how a man and his wife close to me wanted to get a boy after they lost someone and they had only girls, they went to pray to God and wear Mar Chabel uniform and ..... and after the boy was born, they also repeated the acts of thanks to God because he gave them a boy. But the truth is that today you can go to any doctor and get a special advice and treatment and get your boy because it is not God who decided on it, Doctors can do it today

I don't understand how your example fits your explanation. They did not go to a doctor to get a boy. However their results could be explained by pure chance, but then again, what if it wasn't change. We can't really find out.

To generalise more, it is not only that humans seeks god whenever they fail to understand something, also because they are weak. When they can not reach something normally, they start praying or finding justifications.

Hey if it works for them let them do it. But it doesn't mean that all people do it to get something out of it. God does not barter.

If someone comes and beat you and steal your money and kill your mother, and you can not do him anything, you will say God will punish him and he will go to hell after death. So you are trying to justify your "incapacity" by finding a mystirious way to get revenge

I still don't understand what you're trying to prove here. People do not believe in God because they believe he's their afterlife hitman.

Exactly like what happened with first christians who were slaves and have nothing to win in their lives, they were believing in second life to get compensation

They died for a cause. Much like people today die for their country. You're talking about human nature in the end.

To conclude ya Kakou, I am not juif, I am not an agressive person, I am trying to find explanation to the world and the humans behavior around me, this will help me to better understand myself. But I was just replying to your post becaue the way you describe Jesus in your life made me feel some weakness in your approach

With all due respect, if you take the materialistic hardcore facts approach about religion you won't get anywhere. Believe it or not, there are things in this world that reason can't explain, part of those are feelings.

[Bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by Dark Angel

It is always a very interesting yet disturbing subject when the discussion revolves around the existence of God. Ironically if anyone was to present a definitive answer, this subject will no longer be open for debate, and it will either be buried deep in some pages in some book on some shelf in some library, or you’ll all be busy building huge statues of hmm divine scale.

I want to say that it all comes back down to faith, but it is not exactly the case. It comes down to whether or not we want to believe that there is a higher purpose to existence. I have plenty to live for, so do many of you, but I know for sure that my life will not be the same the minute I take the sense of purpose out of it all.

Voltaire once said in answer to this very question at hands that if God didn’t exist, we should have invented him. Many do interpret this as his way of saying there is no God without angering the church. I disagree with this interpretation and I am positive that he was referring to the consequences of the idea that is God, and how deeply it has affected and will affect the course of humanity overall, our set of values are linked in more ways than one to the idea of the divine, regardless of our ethnicity or religious background. It is not clear as to which affected the other more, did the idea of God affect our set of values or did our values affect our conception of God, either ways the result is the same, both concepts are very intermingled and intertwined. Some people tend to delineate between a set of values built on the bill of human rights and ethics and so on, and they forget that those rights are rooted in the very idea of God, hence the freedom of worship.

Christians believe they acquire the holy spirit through baptism, in simpler ways they phrase it as “God is in our hearts”, Gibran claims he is in the heart of God.

At any rate, my world will never be the same without ever aspiring to something better, purer, deeper and more meaningful, something divine. It doesn’t matter if we invented the Divine or he created us, we now depend on each other and I like going down that path hand in hand with God.

how do you reconcile the "growth" of God from the cocky, arrogant melodramatic group of the Greek Myths, to the angry wrathful God of the Judeac tradition to the more grounded and Peaceful God of the Christian tradition and new testament?

Is it a growth in our ideals? and if so, what does that say about holding a "static" image of God for ourselves thats never growing :)

[coralie]

do we have as human an answer to every thing around us ? NO

until then until one just one human been is capable of solving all the mysteries serounding our existence and giving with solid proof logical answers to all kind of questions i will keep believing there is a God .
we as human think we are superior and capable of any thing , decripting decoding all sort of secrets but to our surprise there is always another new secret waiting in the end of each discovery and the uncertainties start eat our small minds again and here we go again in a race to prove the existence or not of God why do we need to proove we are superior ? the human neverending ego ... yes human is a superior race that has the answer to every thing and knows very thing is nt he ? ...who gave you this capability ? who made you ? dont give me the big bang thing it is kind of rediculous why do you admit the big bang and not the existence of God ??? ... keep digging the bigger the hole is the better your chances are to put the water of the ocean in it ! yeah keep digging !

[Bodhisattva]

Originally Posted by coralie

do we have as human an answer to every thing around us ? NO

until then until one just one human been is capable of solving all the mysteries serounding our existence and giving with solid proof logical answers to all kind of questions i will keep believing there is a God .
we as human think we are superior and capable of any thing , decripting decoding all sort of secrets but to our surprise there is always another new secret waiting in the end of each discovery and the uncertainties start eat our small minds again and here we go again in a race to prove the existence or not of God why do we need to proove we are superior ? the human neverending ego ... yes human is a superior race that has the answer to every thing and knows very thing is nt he ? ...who gave you this capability ? who made you ? dont give me the big bang thing it is kind of rediculous why do you admit the big bang and not the existence of God ??? ... keep digging the bigger the hole is the better your chances are to put the water of the ocean in it ! yeah keep digging !

whats so bad about asking why?

or how or when or what??? , why does it have to do with Ego and not with Curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge and Truth?

[faithful]

In my opinion, the true obstacle to have faith and believe in God’s existence is not the lack of scientific proves .The real problem is that “unbelievers” have already decided to remain autonomous, independent and master of their life and they refuse to accept that there is a high and amazing power that controls the world. And this decision blinds their view and prevents them to consider the clear indications about God’s existence that are surrounding them from all sides.

Everything has a beginning and every building has a builder. The earth is filled with life forms of enormous complexity. Where did the first life come from? How did it form? Look at the space, who created all this??

You can give me now a million of arguments and documentaries proved by some scientists who are very materialists who will never accept the existence of spiritual and supernatural forces, to show me Evolutionism. "But as yet Evolutionism has not produced a scientifically credible explanation for the origin of such immense complexities as DNA, the human brain, and many other complex elements of the cosmos. It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes. There is no scientific proof that life did (or ever could) evolve into existence from non-living matter. Further, there is substantial evidence that spontaneous generation is impossible. Only DNA is known to produce DNA. No chemical interaction of molecules has even come close to producing this ultra-complex code which is so essential to all known life. “

Many of the scientists do not objectively seek the truth. Aren’t they a human being like us subject to self deception, pride and self interest?? Don’t you think that some of them suggest meaning of evidence based on their own beliefs and build theories upon it??? Why you chose to believe those materialists and not the others scientists who believe in a supernatural force existence???

You always say we need evidence, If I can not see God so he does not exist. So if you can't see something, you don't believe it exists?
Have you ever seen your brain? No you didn’t, so why you do believe that you have one??
Have you ever seen the wind? We see the effects of the wind, but the wind is invisible.
Have you seen history? We have records of history, we can not go back with time to make researches and be sure about everything. But it is by 'faith' we believe that certain historical events happened.

So we do believe in many things that we can't see. Why not believing in God??

Look around you everything is working perfectly. Everything is in his own place. The universe is working perfectly. Did you ever think why everything is perfect?
Why the sun exists? Why the moon exists?? The stars? The ocean? The mountains? Why we are not all plants?? Why we are not all animals?? Why we are different than other creators??
Why we have a brain? Why we have blood? Why we have feelings? Why we see? Why we talk? Why we walk?? Why we smile? Why we cry? Why we love? Why every part in our bodies has a specified work to do? And none can replace the other??
If you just look at your body and see how it works, you will see that this is a miracle and who created us is very intelligent. How about looking on the whole world how it works?

Believe that we didn’t exist on earth from nothing and for nothing.

Just accept to open your eyes and open your heart, and stop denying His existence and you will see how your life will change. You want the truth? You want evidence? Just look around you in the very smaller thing and see the Miracles. You don’t need any scientist to prove you that.

Search for God from all your heart and have the good will to find him in the place where he exists, for sure you will find him. He will reveal himself to you.
He is the heart of anything existed in this world. He is the beginning and the end. He is the only one who can give LIFE and can control the world in a very intelligent and perfect way.

This is your life and you are free to believe in him or not. But believe me you are losing the most wonderful relation with someone who’s offering you his infinite love and giving you a meaning for your life.

PS: I am not against Science; I am against the overpowering of Science on God. Because God is the beginning of everything. With or without us he exists. He is perfect, we are limited and we will never have his power. And if we can not believe in him doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.
You do not have to believe in Truth for it to be so. It just is. Truth is Truth no matter who believes it