Do you believe in God? Why or why not?

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

You are actually wrong, most scientists know that there is no God. And those who do surely do not believe any organized religion. So stop spreading your nonsense.

I never Said they followed organized religion, Not Islam not christianity not judaism. But Many of 'em believe That there is an origin To all thier Discoveries and they Fully realise that the only Explanation They could ever have at the end of thier Journey is that Something CAUSED all of these events to happen or Something was the Catalyst.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Also about ID, it's a religious theory not a scientific one. Go play this somewhere else. You think just because you heard some "scientific term" then it is scientific ? ID talks about creationism and is creationism with no scientific base. It's assumptions are purely religious. People just seem to get excited when they hear new terms.

>>Well Guess What? This religious Theory Came from fellow Athiests, They Found what they were talking about to be so nonesensical that they came up with the theories, And Guess who Influenced Them? It was actually muslim Scholars.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Most of it is talking about how everything is so complex and detailed for it to have happened alone, which actually defies science and promotes the God of gaps because science and scientists always defied the God of gaps and tried to find how everything happen and not just look at how wonderful life is. Go back to ancient times, if everything you don't understand would have been attributed to God and left at that , we would be still fools looking at thunder and going : "OMG !" So supporting the "God of gaps" is not the wisest stance you can take.

Yes All of it is so complex and detailed to have happened alone, unless ur One of those "Possibility" people who Say: "Yes! There is a Chance that a Tornado attacking a heap of Metal can result in a Shiny Lexus with a Motor and Full tank of Gas".
Each human has his Own God(s) and to many Scientists, The God is "Science" But at some point they always reach the conclusion that This Solid Mass or Rock which exploded to form everything else, Where Did It Come From? Who Made it? Why was there a Gravitational Pull from the Inside?
Unless the Big Bang is the "God" if it is established that it transcends creation Thus The Rules which apply to us do not apply to it.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Seriously I don't care what reasons the prophet and Jesus or whoever else had. In Quran and the bible verses upon verses mixed together and at the end whatever way you go, someone would try to explain some very abstract statement the way he wants. He doesn't have to go into scientific explanation. He could have simply said it the way any ignorant today would understand it. Big Bang happened ( he can call it anything), then after certain years ( Earth was created) bla bla, etc.

I Doubt they were playing games at the time and I Assure you that If Mohammad (PBUH) Said things that Didn't Make Sense at the Time, I doubt anybody would take him Seriously. Quran must be Understood Clearly At all Times for All generations, He Can't talk about Petrol energy when no one understands What energy Is in the first Place.
But He did Describe The Foetus as being Sperm then a Clot of Blood then a Leach like Substance and so on... But He Cannot Say the Word "vertebrate" without information and a Biology lesson in Order to ... ( to do what exactly? Why would he Give a biology lesson when he Himself as a prophet Knew Nothing of this anyway?) That serves No Purpose In religion, Instead he focused on telling them that they should Educate themselves more and study the sciences. It's like teaching the Man how to Fish instead of giving him a Fish and then abandoning him.

Quran does Have many Scientific Facts who are all affirmed by science But the main purpose ofthe Book was not science, the Main purpose was Refutations to Christian and jewsih claims and to teach morals and to Forbid adultery and incest ect.ect...

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

It's still flat-out contradictory, and I don't see how you assume it is water.
Also u're verse:

No It's not contradictory, in fact it couldn't be clearer and is repeated many times in the Quran and in the Hadiths CLEARLY AND WITHOUT HESITATION AND AMBIGUITIES LIKE OTHER PEICES OF LITERATURE. Where is the Contradiction? He is telling you that he Started everything From Clay (Dust,Sands...) Then He somehow Mixed it with Water to create every Living Being. and today Science proves that everything Living Starts with Water In fact the earliest life form were Living In Water Billions of years ago.
and BTW not to burst ur Bubble, even if you don't want to apply it to the Big Bang itself The verse Is also a Direct description of How a Solar system or Galaxy is Formed.

As for the Other stuff you Quoted These are all English translations, and I posted them in English because I know you couldn't handle Arabic specially that of the uran you won't Get it So you need a translation.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Again scientists are the most skeptical people on earth when it comes to God and the highest level of atheists (relatively) are scientists.

The Scientists which you talk about Drop thier christianity because it contradicts Science head on, And since they arn't muslims nor know nothing of it then Islam is out of the question for Most of them, But Thier research is only leading them one way and only one way and that is as clear as daylight.
Here's a list of the Famous Scientists who believed in a God:
Nicholas Copernicus.
Sir Francis Bacon.
Johannes Kepler.
Galileo Galilei.
Rene Descartes.
Isaac Newton.
Robert Boyle.
Michael Faraday.
Gregor Mendel.
William Thomson Kelvin.
Max Planck.
Albert Einstein.

Hmmm, it seems these guys are the most famous scientists on the face of this Planet, Could they be on to sumthin'? But I assure you they didn't believe in the Standard Christianity But they had thier own version of a God or a creator.

THese are Some of the most Famous Scientists (Not nobodies) from Various fields Commenting on Quranic Verses They studied:
Science Islam - Scientists Comment on the Quran

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

What's the point. You are discussing trivial matters that no matter what cannot prove anything. Yet still you maintain your superior standpoint. The Pharoans talked about explosions in the universe and others talked about water being a source of life. That and all what you said is just symbolic.

Yes and Mohamad(PBUH) took all the correct theories and left all the false ones, you know he the illeterate Arab in the middle of the desert Got Translations from all of these Ancient thoeries. very believable.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

You however still didn't answer me on why would God create a universe?

My Reply would be to ask God, But He hinted in what purpose we were created, and Don't think that this is the Only world that exists he created many others it says so even in the bible which was Mis-Translated from "and God created the Worlds" to "and God created the World".
In the Quran he mentions Many other creations Other than the Ins (Humans).

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

I also want you to answer me on why he ignored all the people before him ?

He didn't ignore anyone, he sent prophet and messenger one after the other with CLEAR signs Until he made sure that the people Got it right then left it up to them to follow or Not and the concequences are Just as Clear. Islam is not a Game, All other religions tell you that if you join us you go to heaven, whereas islam is the Only religion that guarantees that you will go to hell.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

(it makes sense that as civilization was on the way, and as a more intellectual society was taking over, someone ( especially that he was predated by others) would use a bit more scientific approach to the mass control of the people and their way of living)

He was an illiterate and owned Nothing but a few Items in his House as recorded very clearly by a billion sources.

Either He was extremely Foolish to do what he did, Or he was a prophet which Aquired guidance and aid by a superior being.

But he sure did write a Pretty good book in terms of Science and parabols and Grammar and Eloquence and even good Knowlege of the Past and the future. He is so Foolish that he Is Considred by a Famous Christian Author (Michael Hart) to be #1 from amongst the top 100 Greatest Men in History with Jesus at #3 (Surprizingly).

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Also I want you to answer me about Heaven and Hell. The equation that makes no sense not on a physical level; on a logical level. Let me give you a small example. I live now and have my own beliefs. I am a good guy. I will consider I have done nothing wrong to be punished (by the rules of any religion la2anno smallah fee tleteh , wbeddi emro2 3a eed juda, wyasou3 welnabi abel ma owsal 3a heaven). So technically I am going to heaven. Yet, I could have done major killings later on, I could have turned into the biggest monster the world would have known. To make it more simple, consider that the reason I couldn't do that is because I died. So I went to heaven. Another person, who is not as "lucky" as me goes straight to hell because he didn't die and he went on to do mass killings. So it's just a matter of time ? Baby kids also all go to heaven because they couldn't grow and "have their stance in life" ? If I want to redeem myself and couldn't because of some accident but another does, then I can't go to heaven anymore but he can ? Isn't this all "unfair advantage" I can go on and on with all this flawed heaven and hell equation that is the ultimate force that mass controls people on earth.

Belief Alone Will Get you Nowhere, Satan Himself Believes That God exists, In Islam Satan Makes Du3a2 to Allah and tells Him "Please Let me Take this Human Adam with Me to hell." Do you think Satan won't go to hell because he believes That God exists? Ur Belief will Not get you into Heaven, and ur Good deeds will not Get You Into Heaven The Only thing which will get you Into Heaven is Allah's Mercy, Heck Even Mohammad(PBUH) Said that Neither My good deds or my Strong Faith will Grant Me Paradise But Allah's Mercy upon me will.

As for ur Theory that one Human dies before the Other, well Each of us has his Time and Allah will not reveal ur Time for you because If he does then you would repent Like 5 minutes before you die and that's it. Every Second Counts for you Mortal. Allah Does create people with DisAdvantages Such as Handicaps and so on Only to Show you Healthy Individuals His Mercy and Compassion so that you may be Thankful, And he will never Judge the Handicapt with Injustice but based on his circumstances and He will never judge you as a Kaffer if you didn't recieve proper guidance But he will judge you If you didn't Seek it with the Time alloted to you in the Life.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ وَلا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَأَنْتُمْ مُسْلِمُونَ
---
كل نفس ذائقة الموت وانما توفون أجوركم يوم القيامة
---
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالاً كَثِيراً وَنِسَاءً وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ الَّذِي تَسَاءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالْأَرْحَامَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيباً
---
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَقُولُوا قَوْلاً سَدِيداً * يُصْلِحْ لَكُمْ أَعْمَالَكُمْ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ فَازَ فَوْزاً عَظِيما

[tricky]

heheh cant believe that ppl still actually believe that Adam and Eve is a true story :D lol
this is priceless :P, at least you aint saying Noah is a true story as well lol...


my problem with the Quran it's so limited not enough love in the book, i guess if am correct god loves everybody not only islam and not only christian nor any other sect, god is the all loving all caring god... how we show our love to god doesnt make us a bad person or a good person, i may find god via islam and that is good, i may find god via christianity that is good as well... the important part is to have a relationship with god religion could be just a tunnel to reach the destination.

[Boris]

guys...

Christian Muslim Jewish God is the same one, each one interprets it his own way, and the issue is even more biased than our political biases,

Respect, Coexist and the most important of all LOVE each other because HE is laughing at you up there and feeling so bad for you fighting, hating, attacking and disrespecting each other, NO LIVING BEING KNOWS AND WILL EVER KNOW THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH UNTIL HE IS DEAD, so live your life without bothering about thinking and debating who is right and who is wrong because you are all wrong, if GOD wanted us to know the absolute truth in our earthly life he would have made it clear for all mankind at once and not just for a part of it, now live your life and find something/someone to die for with sacrifice and every little question you waste you life asking yourself and trying to answer will be made clear at death :)

whatever we are made of water or dirt or oxygen or bacterias we're gonna turn to ash, and the place we are going no one knows about it, nor Christians nor Muslims nor Jews, the only thing we can be sure of, that in the end of all materialistic lives we are going to meet GOD himself and ask HIM all kind of questions and honor HIM and thanking him for HIS greatness and gratitude and mercy,

finally to answer the thread's question, GOD is everywhere, we(humans) are so narrow minded and cannot even understand how from 1 we can get to 2 because of the infinite 9s in 0.99x, we cannot understand what drives a human body, we say that everything just happened pure coincidence, even coincidence we would never understand how it works because its far beyond our reach of understanding.

then how can we deny that all this system that we live in is created by a supernatural being an architect beyond all limits even without limits, someone who gave us a chance to be part of this amazing and great system that he has constructed for a reason that him alone knows, all this world wouldn't have existed without miracles, the big bang would have happened without miracles, miracles that only HE can do...

God is not Christian nor Muslim nor Jewish, GOD is GOD and everything else its from our imagination and interpretation...

All people have to understand and agree that they are living under the same sky, in the same bodies, in the same system. battling under the same roof will only cause the roof to finally collapse and kill all those under it saying they were right and the other is wrong, right is what we're all gonna find when our hour comes, and when HE will be there to tell us right from wrong, even though everybody in their human lives knows wrong from right but lack from faith in themselves and their understanding of things

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

I never Said they followed organized religion, Not Islam not christianity not judaism. But Many of 'em believe That there is an origin To all thier Discoveries and they Fully realise that the only Explanation They could ever have at the end of thier Journey is that Something CAUSED all of these events to happen or Something was the Catalyst.

Even if I want to take that into account, I don't understand how you're still talking about it. If you want to take their words into account, why don't you take their disbelief in organized religion ( including Islam) into account as well ? This doesn't work.

>>Well Guess What? This religious Theory Came from fellow Athiests, They Found what they were talking about to be so nonesensical that they came up with the theories, And Guess who Influenced Them? It was actually muslim Scholars.

Lol fellow atheists created ID ? LOL For one to be an atheist first and foremost he realizes that just because something is inexplainable doesn't mean it is attributed to the God of Gaps. So what you just said is the most illogical thing I have heard in this thread.

Yes All of it is so complex and detailed to have happened alone, unless ur One of those "Possibility" people who Say: "Yes! There is a Chance that a Tornado attacking a heap of Metal can result in a Shiny Lexus with a Motor and Full tank of Gas".
Each human has his Own God(s) and to many Scientists, The God is "Science" But at some point they always reach the conclusion that This Solid Mass or Rock which exploded to form everything else, Where Did It Come From? Who Made it? Why was there a Gravitational Pull from the Inside?
Unless the Big Bang is the "God" if it is established that it transcends creation Thus The Rules which apply to us do not apply to it.

Complexity here can turn against you. Once you say something is very complex you are opening questions for every person on why it should be very complex when the world could have been much simpler and smaller and restricted and done with a snap of a hand since if it was only done for a purpose then it could have been in any other shape serving that purpose. That's one thing, the other thing is complexity is a necessity in the evolution process and in the adaptation process. You are, once again, referring to the God of gaps.
In short, If I was debating you a thousand( or more) years back, you would be defending your point that God exists by telling me that thunder is unexplainable.

Quran does Have many Scientific Facts who are all affirmed by science But the main purpose ofthe Book was not science, the Main purpose was Refutations to Christian and jewsih claims and to teach morals and to Forbid adultery and incest ect.ect...

To me these refutations are just more proof on how human all these are. The fact that people want to argue about which divine religion out of THREE is right puts the organized religion out of logical proportion. An all-knowing God would not need to bring a religion and then bring another. It's a matter of perspective on this, I know, but I don't see any sense in it, just more proof that these were human creations to mass control. I am surprised that for the first time someone tells me not all religions are true, and only Islam is. ( ofcourse in a debate about Does God Exist).Inside, they will think their religion is only true, but they won't bring it up maybe for more logic.

The Scientists which you talk about Drop thier christianity because it contradicts Science head on, And since they arn't muslims nor know nothing of it then Islam is out of the question for Most of them, But Thier research is only leading them one way and only one way and that is as clear as daylight.
Here's a list of the Famous Scientists who believed in a God:
Nicholas Copernicus.
Sir Francis Bacon.
Johannes Kepler.
Galileo Galilei.
Rene Descartes.
Isaac Newton.
Robert Boyle.
Michael Faraday.
Gregor Mendel.
William Thomson Kelvin.
Max Planck.
Albert Einstein.

I don't know about the religious leanings of each of them. But since you are putting them in one column, I have to tell you that for example Albert Einstein did not believe in Islam or any organized religion. Actually he didn't even believe in God the way you think he did. His God was special and the characterizations of him were similar to the formula the Greek did. he always had difficulty attributing anything to him and to me it seemed like he was just acting philosophical and from an agnostic point of view. Also As you recalled early scientists, it is definitely more likely ( despite their disbelief in organized religion) that they believe in God in some form of it. If anything, this proves how that even in 1564, a person like Galileo was defying the ignorant teachings yet only maintained his bond with the catholic church for the spiritual effect it had on him probably. If you look at our more opened and progressed and informed societies now, you can see that scientists are maintaining their disbelief in God and organized religion and some of them even dropping it completely off since they do not find it anymore important to have a spiritual bond with some God which they don't even know how to characterize.

My Reply would be to ask God, But He hinted in what purpose we were created, and Don't think that this is the Only world that exists he created many others it says so even in the bible which was Mis-Translated from "and God created the Worlds" to "and God created the World".
In the Quran he mentions Many other creations Other than the Ins (Humans).

You still didn't answer the question. I said why the universe was created and not why Humans were. Actually that was my main point in the question. Humans were created after the universe was. So there weren't any humans so that God would say : Let's create the universe to be able to judge the humans. In other words as I said two or three times before in this thread: He created a problem to fix and a concept to solve. This is why I referred to you as thinking backwards. You are loving in the moment and not being inclusive.

He didn't ignore anyone, he sent prophet and messenger one after the other with CLEAR signs Until he made sure that the people Got it right then left it up to them to follow or Not and the concequences are Just as Clear. Islam is not a Game, All other religions tell you that if you join us you go to heaven, whereas islam is the Only religion that guarantees that you will go to hell.

He ignored everyone who came before him. Millions of people. So as Jesus did.

Belief Alone Will Get you Nowhere, Satan Himself Believes That God exists, In Islam Satan Makes Du3a2 to Allah and tells Him "Please Let me Take this Human Adam with Me to hell." Do you think Satan won't go to hell because he believes That God exists? Ur Belief will Not get you into Heaven, and ur Good deeds will not Get You Into Heaven The Only thing which will get you Into Heaven is Allah's Mercy, Heck Even Mohammad(PBUH) Said that Neither My good deds or my Strong Faith will Grant Me Paradise But Allah's Mercy upon me will.

I know this. I would kill myself if I didn't. This type of ignorance is present everywhere. People will call you Kaffer and even a satanist just because you don't believe in God although technically it's the most contradictory anyone can say.

As for ur Theory that one Human dies before the Other, well Each of us has his Time and Allah will not reveal ur Time for you because If he does then you would repent Like 5 minutes before you die and that's it. Every Second Counts for you Mortal. Allah Does create people with DisAdvantages Such as Handicaps and so on Only to Show you Healthy Individuals His Mercy and Compassion so that you may be Thankful, And he will never Judge the Handicapt with Injustice but based on his circumstances and He will never judge you as a Kaffer if you didn't recieve proper guidance But he will judge you If you didn't Seek it with the Time alloted to you in the Life.

It's unfair, and unequal, and you are disregarding a human's soul ( which is the main point of religion : evaluating a human soul). Also you ran away from the answer by preaching, which is a common method for religious people. I'm talking about the "what if". A person is a murderer... when ? Maybe he could have killed after he died. Does that make him any better to go to heaven ? you are only giving regard to his body and not for his feelings and emotions and thinking and most importantly soul ? This is a huge flaw in the heaven and hell equation.
If you will answer me that God knows (lol), well that all-knowing God had very much time (and illogic) on his hand because even that he knows everyone's thinking he still created everything and made the whole process work. Which is why religion contradicts itself with the concept of "free thinking".

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by Boris

guys...

Christian Muslim Jewish God is the same one, each one interprets it his own way, and the issue is even more biased than our political biases,

Respect, Coexist and the most important of all LOVE each other because HE is laughing at you up there and feeling so bad for you fighting, hating, attacking and disrespecting each other, NO LIVING BEING KNOWS AND WILL EVER KNOW THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH UNTIL HE IS DEAD, so live your life without bothering about thinking and debating who is right and who is wrong because you are all wrong, if GOD wanted us to know the absolute truth in our earthly life he would have made it clear for all mankind at once and not just for a part of it, now live your life and find something/someone to die for with sacrifice and every little question you waste you life asking yourself and trying to answer will be made clear at death :)

whatever we are made of water or dirt or oxygen or bacterias we're gonna turn to ash, and the place we are going no one knows about it, nor Christians nor Muslims nor Jews, the only thing we can be sure of, that in the end of all materialistic lives we are going to meet GOD himself and ask HIM all kind of questions and honor HIM and thanking him for HIS greatness and gratitude and mercy,

finally to answer the thread's question, GOD is everywhere, we(humans) are so narrow minded and cannot even understand how from 1 we can get to 2 because of the infinite 9s in 0.99x, we cannot understand what drives a human body, we say that everything just happened pure coincidence, even coincidence we would never understand how it works because its far beyond our reach of understanding.

then how can we deny that all this system that we live in is created by a supernatural being an architect beyond all limits even without limits, someone who gave us a chance to be part of this amazing and great system that he has constructed for a reason that him alone knows, all this world wouldn't have existed without miracles, the big bang would have happened without miracles, miracles that only HE can do...

God is not Christian nor Muslim nor Jewish, GOD is GOD and everything else its from our imagination and interpretation...

All people have to understand and agree that they are living under the same sky, in the same bodies, in the same system. battling under the same roof will only cause the roof to finally collapse and kill all those under it saying they were right and the other is wrong, right is what we're all gonna find when our hour comes, and when HE will be there to tell us right from wrong, even though everybody in their human lives knows wrong from right but lack from faith in themselves and their understanding of things

You are just preaching ... also do you believe in organized religion as a whole and not just a specific religion ? Because if you don't, then I don't know how you know what God wants you to do and according to what he will judge you, etc ...

[Libnene Qu7]

I believe that 1,000 years from now, we will look back at Christianity, Islam, and Judaism and laugh at ourselves. Just like we do now with ancient Greek, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian mythology. Well, at least the ancient mythologies were not self-contradictory; in that sense they are more advanced.

I'm an agnostic, strongly leaning towards atheism. I hate big institutional religions like Chrsitianity and Islam. I believe more people are starting to see the smoke and mirrors of organized religion, and that slowly, as a world population, we're edging towards atheism (i.e. logic and intelligence).

[I_Am_LebanoN]

Originally Posted by General my General!

Lol! You're funny, I'd give you that.

It is 50/50, given that nobody can prove that god exists, or not, then there's logically an equal chance of him existing or not. Or have you a better perspective?

As for my 'reasoning', where did I mention any religion? I was stating my reasons that, while this is an interesting issue to discuss, I take it more lightly than most who have posted.

Clearly you need to chill out and watch more classics.

Nobody can prove the existence or nonexistence of what never existed. The fact that their existence cannot be proven or disproven itself proves they never existed. Just like you cannot prove bigfoot, or the toothfairy or santa don't exist. Is there a 50/50 chance that they may or may not exist ? No, they just don't and never did.

You have no perspective, you have no logic, that's blatant nonsense.

[Red Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Libnene Qu7

I believe that 1,000 years from now, we will look back at Christianity, Islam, and Judaism and laugh at ourselves. Just like we do now with ancient Greek, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian mythology. Well, at least the ancient mythologies were not self-contradictory; in that sense they are more advanced.

I'm an agnostic, strongly leaning towards atheism. I hate big institutional religions like Chrsitianity and Islam. I believe more people are starting to see the smoke and mirrors of organized religion, and that slowly, as a world population, we're edging towards atheism (i.e. logic and intelligence).

my guess is that 1000 years from now, if humans didnt become extinct that is, they would be obssessing over some other fad rather than our generic gods.

perhaps they'd be nuts about alien gods or quantum gods.

at any rate, there is only one true god in this era.

the tv tube.

[Nayla]

I believe in GOD
Why?
Because I could find my way to Him

How?
Well, nobody can explain how he found GOD cz everyone has his own way to Him: ways to GOD are as much as there's humans. Nobody can teach us how to find GOD cz if we don't want to go to Him, it's our choice.. and when we decide to find Him, we'll find our way.

[I_Am_LebanoN]

Originally Posted by Red Phoenix

perhaps they'd be nuts about alien gods

This future sounds like Hollywood.

.

Praise Xenu.