Do you believe in God? Why or why not?

[ostwind]

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

His wisdom is far beyond us but when it is accompanied with an organized religion I can refute anything. Also I made a point and you didn't reply to it yet. Don't tell me that I cannot understand God, please. If I want to follow you and your beliefs, he gave me logic, right ? ... so if my logic is refuting him, he will be responsible and not me. So once again answer my question directly.

Your logic is controlled by yourself. God gave everyone the freedom of choice whether to follow him or not. It is all purely your choice, your way of thinking and your logic not God's.

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by ostwind

Your logic is controlled by yourself. God gave everyone the freedom of choice whether to follow him or not. It is all purely your choice, your way of thinking and your logic not God's.

...and once again you miss the point. If I can refute the existence of God, it depends on logic, and on proof. God gave me my brain to think this way. What you are saying is what you said before: God proved himself and thus it became a choice whether I would believe in him or not. Which is the reason for what I am saying; first I have to believe in God to be able to chose. If I prove God doesn't exist what's the point of choosing to believe in him or not ?
There's a thick line between choice and logic.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by tricky

if you believe in God, then God gave us a brain to use it and an imagination so that we will never run out of ideas and possiblities... if god didnt want us to think he wouldnt bother giving us a brain, so i dont think it's bold...

I would call it all speculations...problem starts when some think they can claim the ultimate truth...if we can't think with a 7th dimension brain, I dont think its clever to claim any ultimate wisdom...so till then all such discursions about what God might feel or think is rather entertaining

hmm duality of energy do you mean "Ying" & "Yang"? not sure if i spelled it correct and stuff... what about the duality of energy? and what do you mean exactly ?

yes something like that..

also duality in science: here and there and duality as in spiritualism:

"The first thing you must know past the fact that there is divinity within you is that on this planet there is something called duality. That duality represents itself as a balance to the divinity... the darkest energy you can ever conceive of, which is you with your name on it. It comes in with you at your birth and does not leave until your last breath. Some have called it the Shadow-Self. Some have called it the Dark-Self. Some have called it evil, and some have called it the dark side. This attribute of you has a name, and it is called duality." read on

[tricky]

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

I doubt.
As for the Quran verse, instead of trying to maintain this superior standpoint of yours, why don't you try to look at the verse and analyze it for a second. From one point, if I want to take into account that it was actually the big bang they were talking about, then I am sure I can find you many claims that predated Islam by far and talked about some explosion at some time in the universe. Regardless , it is useless because my second point is everyone who believes that this is connected to the big bang must have his IQ checked. So Earth and Heaven were one piece of mass and then separated. In the big bang, Earth was not created, and ( thus not heaven ?) Earth was created billions of years after. So, if you want to take a timeline, no matter what, you would be taking the timeline of the scientific "big bang" meaning the only way you can explain the timeline is by taking that for instance every two days is some few billion years, and by that you would be assuming something that was not mentioned. All that, however, only works if the Quran meant that Earth and heaven did not get created once the explosion happens and it doesn't mention anything about it.

Also how come that water was used to create every living thing ? Wasn't it clay that humans were created from ?

Yeh they were sent for that purpose, but in the process ignored billions of people before them.

His wisdom is far beyond us but when it is accompanied with an organized religion I can refute anything. Also I made a point and you didn't reply to it yet. Don't tell me that I cannot understand God, please. If I want to follow you and your beliefs, he gave me logic, right ? ... so if my logic is refuting him, he will be responsible and not me. So once again answer my question directly.

first of all i thought that i was the only guy in lebanon who was atheist and was anti-politics :D, am even anti-nations ( in which i see all the nations as the same, i dont belong to any nation but to earth ^_^ ) beat that :P ...

this is for the Quran guy with the Big Bang theory of creation, first of all the big bang wasnt a solid blast , it was at the level of atoms or something where the first matter became so dense and hot and exploded then expanded stuff then after some very very very very very very very very i guess you get the point earth was created then after very very very very very very very very years passed and humans came from the very very very very very very evolution years :D... btw at the big bang i can assure you that heaven wasnt created, because the big bang not only cause the space come into existence but time as well, big bang made space & time , if you believe that there is time in heaven , it's bad :P... so the question arises since god was existing before the big bang and before time and space , what made him suddenly to create the world? what happened to him? i thought god was omnipotent and omnipresent :P.... it's not like he went ohh am bored let me create something to watch :P...

[tricky]

Originally Posted by Salome

I would call it all speculations...problem starts when some think they can claim the ultimate truth...if we can't think with a 7th dimension brain, I dont think its clever to claim any ultimate wisdom...so till then all such discursions about what God might feel or think is rather entertaining

yes something like that..

also duality in science: here and there and duality as in spiritualism:

"The first thing you must know past the fact that there is divinity within you is that on this planet there is something called duality. That duality represents itself as a balance to the divinity... the darkest energy you can ever conceive of, which is you with your name on it. It comes in with you at your birth and does not leave until your last breath. Some have called it the Shadow-Self. Some have called it the Dark-Self. Some have called it evil, and some have called it the dark side. This attribute of you has a name, and it is called duality." read on

first of all what's up with the 7th dimention what does that even mean ^_^

second, am not sure if you want us to sit around and do nothing :D, you know to acutally prove something first it needs to be a theory ^_^... am glade that you are being entertained :D , am sure we are better than watching a pointless series on tv ^_^...

i read the duality thingy but dont buy it :D, was far as i know darkness is the absence of light :P, darkness isnt the opposite of light but it's absence ^_^, so duality seem to fall :D... we are divine to balance god and stuff O.o, why do we need to balance god ? isnt god the unlimited power and stuff? i just dont get it :D

[General my General!]

There are too many things in life that I have yet to understand. And since I won't live forever, I won't have time to understand them all.

So while its often interesting to read perspectives or ponder what God was/is/will be, since this is most certainly the greatest question which we have yet to answer, I know I won't be able to understand God in this lifetime.

In the meantime, I am human, and one of the tendencies humans have is to better themselves and others. So I choose to follow it.

Best case is, there is a God, and we will 'one day' reach enlightenment by God's side.

Worst case is, there is no God, and in that case, what would I do with my life? Waste it? It is much too interesting to live it.

Personal faith aside, logical would tell you its 50/50. Do I feel lucky, Punk? ;p

Cheers!

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

I doubt.
As for the Quran verse, instead of trying to maintain this superior standpoint of yours, why don't you try to look at the verse and analyze it for a second. From one point, if I want to take into account that it was actually the big bang they were talking about, then I am sure I can find you many claims that predated Islam by far and talked about some explosion at some time in the universe. Regardless , it is useless because my second point is everyone who believes that this is connected to the big bang must have his IQ checked. So Earth and Heaven were one piece of mass and then separated. In the big bang, Earth was not created, and ( thus not heaven ?) Earth was created billions of years after. So, if you want to take a timeline, no matter what, you would be taking the timeline of the scientific "big bang" meaning the only way you can explain the timeline is by taking that for instance every two days is some few billion years, and by that you would be assuming something that was not mentioned. All that, however, only works if the Quran meant that Earth and heaven did not get created once the explosion happens and it doesn't mention anything about it.

Also how come that water was used to create every living thing ? Wasn't it clay that humans were created from ?



Yeh they were sent for that purpose, but in the process ignored billions of people before them.



His wisdom is far beyond us but when it is accompanied with an organized religion I can refute anything. Also I made a point and you didn't reply to it yet. Don't tell me that I cannot understand God, please. If I want to follow you and your beliefs, he gave me logic, right ? ... so if my logic is refuting him, he will be responsible and not me. So once again answer my question directly.

Wlek Khalas Sa7tein 3a2albak, Whatever you wish My Friend, Bass go tell the Non-Muslim scientists who Said That around 500 verses couldn't have come from a Man ( from a Scientific not Literature point of View) back then and incorporated these in thier books, Go tell Professor Emeritus keith L. moore (Professor of Anatomy and cell Biology Canada) and Dr. Allison (Pete) Palmer (NewYork University Geology Professor) and Prof. Yoshihide Kozai (Japanese Famous Astronomer) and Prof. T.V.N. Persaud( Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Science University of Manitoba) and William w.Hey (Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado,USA.) and Dr.Maurice Bucaille (specialist in gastroenterology and Famous Surgeon) ect.ect.........Tell them to get thier IQ's Checked and Also tell them there are other pre-Islamic theories Talking about The Creation of the foetus step by Step and the Seperation of Waters by Invisible Walls in the seas and the Roots of the mountains in the earth and the (Ostrich egg) Shape of the earth and its Rotation around the Sun ect.ect.ect.... Sub7an Allah It seems Mohammad(PBUH) only copied the correct theories and left out all the false ones. Enough Jokes Most Scientists Know that There is a God But they just can't bring themselves to Say it, do you Know the Latest Thing they came up with? It's Called "ID" or "Intelligent Design" (Instead of God).
As for the Verse Let me tell you something interesting, It seems you forget that these verse were Aimed at Camel Riding Arabs in the Deserts of Arabia, So Do you really expect Allah to Give a detailed explanation that They cannot ever Comprehend? Can he Mention The Photons interacting with the the Atoms in Order to Generate Electrons which Produce a Photo-electric effect? You also Forget that the Purpose of this book is for Humans to Worship thier ONE creator without attributing any Human defficiencies to him or Likening him to a creature and Not to Teach Humanity the Scientific Facts of Life and how to produce Nuclear Energy.
Another Thing is regarding the water, If I remember correctly It is Clay and water, you see There is a problem when you take things out of context (context being the Other verses which talk about the other ingredients)because in Islam it is common knowlege That a Human's Main components are Clay and Water (and Soul) and these were affirmed by Science.
Here is one of the many verses:
"He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning. Such is He, the Knower of all things, hidden and open, the Exalted (in power), the Merciful;- He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (The Noble Quran, 32:5-9)"


Islam is appealing to the common sense, Not ur systemized Logic and what you said is correct, If ur an Insane or Crazy person God will not Judge you like others, But if ur Sane and you see some truth then Try hard to Cover (or Kaffer in arabic) It up then you will be punished for that, If you know that This Intelligent Design that all Scientists are talking about Is In deed the creator and refute him then you will be a Kaffer and will be judged.
So Kaffer does not mean a Dis-Believer.

As for you he gave you Guidance so Either you try Hard to follow this guidance and Join every Scientist on the planet which agrees that There is a creator or You take a ShortCut and read his book.

And if you think that this book came from a Human then I challenge you to get me something like it, at least one chapter. Prove me wrong and Dis-mantle Islam by getting me only One Complete meaningful Chapter, Hire as much Literature experts as you can.

[I_Am_LebanoN]

Originally Posted by General my General!

Personal faith aside, logical would tell you its 50/50. Do I feel lucky, Punk? ;p

Cheers!

It's not 50/50, it's 100/null.
And in your poor reasoning you forgot that Christianity or Islam or whichever fairytale you worship is not the only religion on the market, there are hundreds of thousands of religions and each wants you to believe in its respective deities.

Still feeling lucky punk ? You got 1 in a million chance following your "logical" reasoning, at best. Hold on to it as hard as you can.

[General my General!]

Originally Posted by I_Am_LebanoN

It's not 50/50, it's 100/null.
And in your poor reasoning you forgot that Christianity or Islam or whichever fairytale you worship is not the only religion on the market, there are hundreds of thousands of religions and each wants you to believe in its respective deities.

Still feeling lucky punk ? You got 1 in a million chance following your "logical" reasoning, at best. Hold on to it as hard as you can.

Lol! You're funny, I'd give you that.

It is 50/50, given that nobody can prove that god exists, or not, then there's logically an equal chance of him existing or not. Or have you a better perspective?

As for my 'reasoning', where did I mention any religion? I was stating my reasons that, while this is an interesting issue to discuss, I take it more lightly than most who have posted.

Clearly you need to chill out and watch more classics.

[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

Wlek Khalas Sa7tein 3a2albak, Whatever you wish My Friend, Bass go tell the Non-Muslim scientists who Said That around 500 verses couldn't have come from a Man ( from a Scientific not Literature point of View) back then and incorporated these in thier books, Go tell Professor Emeritus keith L. moore (Professor of Anatomy and cell Biology Canada) and Dr. Allison (Pete) Palmer (NewYork University Geology Professor) and Prof. Yoshihide Kozai (Japanese Famous Astronomer) and Prof. T.V.N. Persaud( Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Science University of Manitoba) and William w.Hey (Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado,USA.) and Dr.Maurice Bucaille (specialist in gastroenterology and Famous Surgeon) ect.ect.........Tell them to get thier IQ's Checked and Also tell them there are other pre-Islamic theories Talking about The Creation of the foetus step by Step and the Seperation of Waters by Invisible Walls in the seas and the Roots of the mountains in the earth and the (Ostrich egg) Shape of the earth and its Rotation around the Sun ect.ect.ect.... Sub7an Allah It seems Mohammad(PBUH) only copied the correct theories and left out all the false ones. Enough Jokes Most Scientists Know that There is a God But they just can't bring themselves to Say it, do you Know the Latest Thing they came up with? It's Called "ID" or "Intelligent Design" (Instead of God).

You are actually wrong, most scientists know that there is no God. And those who do surely do not believe any organized religion. So stop spreading your nonsense.
Also about ID, it's a religious theory not a scientific one. Go play this somewhere else. You think just because you heard some "scientific term" then it is scientific ? ID talks about creationism and is creationism with no scientific base. It's assumptions are purely religious. People just seem to get excited when they hear new terms. Most of it is talking about how everything is so complex and detailed for it to have happened alone, which actually defies science and promotes the God of gaps because science and scientists always defied the God of gaps and tried to find how everything happen and not just look at how wonderful life is. Go back to ancient times, if everything you don't understand would have been attributed to God and left at that , we would be still fools looking at thunder and going : "OMG !" So supporting the "God of gaps" is not the wisest stance you can take.

As for the Verse Let me tell you something interesting, It seems you forget that these verse were Aimed at Camel Riding Arabs in the Deserts of Arabia, So Do you really expect Allah to Give a detailed explanation that They cannot ever Comprehend? Can he Mention The Photons interacting with the the Atoms in Order to Generate Electrons which Produce a Photo-electric effect? You also Forget that the Purpose of this book is for Humans to Worship thier ONE creator without attributing any Human deficiencies to him or Likening him to a creature and Not to Teach Humanity the Scientific Facts of Life and how to produce Nuclear Energy.

Seriously I don't care what reasons the prophet and Jesus or whoever else had. In Quran and the bible verses upon verses mixed together and at the end whatever way you go, someone would try to explain some very abstract statement the way he wants. He doesn't have to go into scientific explanation. He could have simply said it the way any ignorant today would understand it. Big Bang happened ( he can call it anything), then after certain years ( Earth was created) bla bla, etc.

Another Thing is regarding the water, If I remember correctly It is Clay and water, you see There is a problem when you take things out of context (context being the Other verses which talk about the other ingredients)because in Islam it is common knowlege That a Human's Main components are Clay and Water (and Soul) and these were affirmed by Science.
Here is one of the many verses:
"He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning. Such is He, the Knower of all things, hidden and open, the Exalted (in power), the Merciful;- He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (The Noble Quran, 32:5-9)"

It's still flat-out contradictory, and I don't see how you assume it is water.
Also u're verse:

(21:30) Did the unbelievers (who do not accept the teaching of the Prophet) not realize that the heavens and the earth were one solid mass, then We tore them apart, and We made every living being out of water? Will they, then, not believe (that We created all this)?

YUSUFALI: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;

PICKTHAL: And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered,

SHAKIR: And when your Lord said to the angels: Surely I am going to create a mortal of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape.

Islam is appealing to the common sense, Not ur systemized Logic and what you said is correct, If ur an Insane or Crazy person God will not Judge you like others, But if ur Sane and you see some truth then Try hard to Cover (or Kaffer in arabic) It up then you will be punished for that, If you know that This Intelligent Design that all Scientists are talking about Is In deed the creator and refute him then you will be a Kaffer and will be judged.
So Kaffer does not mean a Dis-Believer.

Tell that to Ostwind. I don't believe in God because of my logic. There is no other reason. Actually I would prefer to have a spiritual bond to heaven or whatever, and this is the reason why religion can thrive, but I just don't.

As for you he gave you Guidance so Either you try Hard to follow this guidance and Join every Scientist on the planet which agrees that There is a creator or You take a Shortcut and read his book.

Again scientists are the most skeptical people on earth when it comes to God and the highest level of atheists (relatively) are scientists.

And if you think that this book came from a Human then I challenge you to get me something like it, at least one chapter. Prove me wrong and Dis-mantle Islam by getting me only One Complete meaningful Chapter, Hire as much Literature experts as you can.

What's the point. You are discussing trivial matters that no matter what cannot prove anything. Yet still you maintain your superior standpoint. The Pharoans talked about explosions in the universe and others talked about water being a source of life. That and all what you said is just symbolic.
You however still didn't answer me on why would God create a universe?
I also want you to answer me on why he ignored all the people before him ?
(it makes sense that as civilization was on the way, and as a more intellectual society was taking over, someone ( especially that he was predated by others) would use a bit more scientific approach to the mass control of the people and their way of living)
Also I want you to answer me about Heaven and Hell. The equation that makes no sense not on a physical level; on a logical level. Let me give you a small example. I live now and have my own beliefs. I am a good guy. I will consider I have done nothing wrong to be punished (by the rules of any religion la2anno smallah fee tleteh , wbeddi emro2 3a eed juda, wyasou3 welnabi abel ma owsal 3a heaven). So technically I am going to heaven. Yet, I could have done major killings later on, I could have turned into the biggest monster the world would have known. To make it more simple, consider that the reason I couldn't do that is because I died. So I went to heaven. Another person, who is not as "lucky" as me goes straight to hell because he didn't die and he went on to do mass killings. So it's just a matter of time ? Baby kids also all go to heaven because they couldn't grow and "have their stance in life" ? If I want to redeem myself and couldn't because of some accident but another does, then I can't go to heaven anymore but he can ? Isn't this all "unfair advantage" I can go on and on with all this flawed heaven and hell equation that is the ultimate force that mass controls people on earth.