Do you believe in God? Why or why not?

[SeekNirvana]

Originally Posted by lady_forever

Do you believe in mirecales?????How many people were cured from the worst diseases cancer or others??? how many doctors couldn't explain how were they cured???..so can u explain how then?

No, can you?

[TripolySunni]

Your reply could be found in some of my earlier posts and will show you that nature alone cannot produce life as you put it because that would be in itself scientifically impossible.

But I'll give a new argument for him this time maybe he/she can understand. Aristotle argued in the old days that there MUST BE ONE GOD because you cannot keep going infinitly in time, So If Nature created Us Then who created Nature? Nature as we know was created by Nature and then that nature was created by another nature and you keep going infinitely. Now In Islam we say ALLAH As a Concept has no beginning, So asking who created Allah is a Ludacris question... Because if you keep asking who created the creator then you can keep going infinitely back in time Thus No beginning. However, the fact that we are here proves that there is a beginning for us.

God does not necessarily equal creator, Although that is the case for us muslims because we only worship the creator as a God (As you know some people worship cows or trees or Other peope as God and they arn't creators). Also take notice we cannot see the smallest of bodies (Electrons, protons...) yet you feel thier existance is important to make everything up.

Harvard graduate of Divinity School Dr.Jerald Dirks Duscusses Islam/Christianity:

Part1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZSr...47F69D&index=9

Part2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQFXu...47F69D&index=7

Part3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuM-xCBtBSE

[syrian]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

Then who created Nature? Nature as we know was created by Nature and then that nature was created by another nature and you keep going infinitely. Now In Islam we say ALLAH As a Concept has no beginning, So asking who created Allah is a Ludacris question... Because if you keep asking who created the creator then you can keep going infinitely back in time Thus No beginning. However, the fact that we are here proves that there is a beginning for us.

God does not necessarily equal creator, Although that is the case for us muslims because we only worship the creator as a God

what are you trying to say here?? you are oscillating between two extreme, one time saying that God is a concept, has no beginning and is not necessarily the creator, and another time saying that god is the creator for you muslims... just try to make up ur mind dude... if he is not the creator, then why does he exist? what is his work? what is the use of god?

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

Also take notice we cannot see the smallest of bodies (Electrons, protons...) yet you feel thier existance is important to make everything up.

were u drunk when u wrote that??
1- electrons cannot be isolated as such, but they are scientifically proven to be there(by measuring they electrical field, etc...) same goes for protons, even though i guess they can be seem using a nanoscope

2- u are comparing material entities (electrons and protons) to a spiritual entity... these are two different worlds my dear, having completely different properties... u simply cannot do that

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by syrian

what are you trying to say here?? you are oscillating between two extreme, one time saying that God is a concept, has no beginning and is not necessarily the creator, and another time saying that god is the creator for you muslims... just try to make up ur mind dude... if he is not the creator, then why does he exist? what is his work? what is the use of god?





were u drunk when u wrote that??
1- electrons cannot be isolated as such, but they are scientifically proven to be there(by measuring they electrical field, etc...) same goes for protons, even though i guess they can be seem using a nanoscope

2- u are comparing material entities (electrons and protons) to a spiritual entity... these are two different worlds my dear, having completely different properties... u simply cannot do that

You Don't get it,
ok any object of worship is a god, any object you put your faith and hope on is a God. and you Worship it in any way thinking that it will bring you benefit.
There are many Gods, but in Islam we say that God is ONE, now a God is not necessarly a creator, the God can be the creator in some religion while in others a god can be a creation such as an animal or statue.
Concerning creators, There are many including me and you but Allah is considered the best of creators.

Concerning the rest, You Know that an electron exists because of the electric field, I Know that a Creator exists from the fact that everything else does. Ok So there are bodies much smaller than the electrons still scientists cannot see them but they never say that they do not exist, same applies to gravity.

BTW if anyone wants to see an electron pattern of mvmnt check this link out it was shown in Kyoto, Japan:
http://www.physorg.com/news100354343.html

[Dalzi]

God thread once more...

Originally Posted by J. Abizeid

Don’t forget he created you, lady_forever
Aren’t you jealous he’s a he not a she?

I must say I would find God sexist had he been a male or had he had a male offspring (figuratively speaking).

Why don't theists and atheists just go by "lakum bala dinukum wa li dini" and we can all live happily ever after...

[Xena]

As long as the existence or the nonexistence of god can't be proven.... the belief or nonbelief in god still remains a personal opinion...

Something like, the fact that i like blue doesn't prove that blue is a beautiful or an ugly color! it only means that i personally think that blue is a nice color! and it doesn't mean that blue should be loved by everyone else... and it doesn't mean that the people who prefer red and think that blue isn't beautiful will burn in hell for eternity! etc...etc..etc..

and as we all know, opinions and tastes shouldn't be imposed... until the day they prove that blue is a beautiful color...

[SeekNirvana]

Originally Posted by Xena

As long as the existence or the nonexistence of god can't be proven.... the belief or nonbelief in god still remains a personal opinion...

Something like, the fact that i like blue doesn't prove that blue is a beautiful or an ugly color! it only means that i personally think that blue is a nice color! and it doesn't mean that blue should be loved by everyone else... and it doesn't mean that the people who prefer red and think that blue isn't beautiful will burn in hell for eternity! etc...etc..etc..

and as we all know, opinions and tastes shouldn't be imposed... until the day they prove that blue is a beautiful color...

The moderate opinion is commendable and much more diplomatic within religious discussions as they tend to get a tide too emotional :) That being said, the burden of proof is hardly justified to be on the party claiming the non-existence.

A more accurate analogy would be the following:

*Start of discussion*
SN: Hey Xena, I believe in a dinosaur that walks on two feet, drinks beer, plays good basketball and has a strong ear for Oriental Jazz.
Xena: Are you sh!tting me?
SN: Prove me wrong young lady! Aha, you can't, therefore he exists and I demand you respect my opinion.
/Xena delivers uppercut punch to the chin followed by a Chuck-Norris-roundhouse kick to the face.
*End of discussion*

[Xena]

Originally Posted by SeekNirvana

The moderate opinion is commendable and much more diplomatic within religious discussions as they tend to get a tide too emotional :) That being said, the burden of proof is hardly justified to be on the party claiming the non-existence.

A more accurate analogy would be the following:

*Start of discussion*
SN: Hey Xena, I believe in a dinosaur that walks on two feet, drinks beer, plays good basketball and has a strong ear for Oriental Jazz.
Xena: Are you sh!tting me?
SN: Prove me wrong young lady! Aha, you can't, therefore he exists and I demand you respect my opinion.
/Xena delivers uppercut punch to the chin followed by a Chuck-Norris-roundhouse kick to the face.
*End of discussion*

:)

The difference between God and the beer drinking dinosaur is that god has acquired credibility throughout history...whereas this cool dinasaur was never heard of before...
In other words, despite whether god exists or not, the idea of its existence is not only widely accepted but also backed by many arguments specially ontological arguments from philosophers and let's say trustworthy people which again gives credibility to the god idea.

Since the logic of most people is able to accept the idea of the existence of a supreme being and since it's part of people's traditions, conventions and customs i believe that the burden of proof should be on the party claiming the nonexistence. If you want to discredit a widely accepted theory, you'd better have a real proof.

Since proving the existence or the nonexistence apparently isn't very possible and that only arguments are used then as i said in my previous post, the belief or nonbelief in god is only a matter of a personal opinion.
Therefore discussing whether god exists or not without having a solid proof is just a vicious circle.

so whether you believe in god or not depends on your education, your personal experiences, your own way of seeing things and not on rational thinking and common sense.

[False Morel]

Originally Posted by Xena

As long as the existence or the nonexistence of god can't be proven.... the belief or nonbelief in god still remains a personal opinion...

Actually, to be specific here, all religions throughout human history are proven to be man-made, including the god(s) preached of and believed into and worshipped through those religions.

A valid debate is going between agnostics and atheists actually.
It's about the general idea of a supernatural spiritual power to be the creator of this universe. Regardless of it type and origin!

A debate, most of the members on this forum don't require enough mental abilities as well as historical and scientific knowledge to comprehend and analyse its components and hence can't take part into.

Originally Posted by Xena

The difference between God and the beer drinking dinosaur is that god has acquired credibility throughout history

I'd rather say popularity and fame but not credibility!
If anything, history has proved God otherwise.

In other words, despite whether god exists or not, the idea of its existence is not only widely accepted but also backed by many arguments specially ontological arguments from philosophers and let's say trustworthy people which again gives credibility to the god idea.

Since the logic of most people is able to accept the idea of the existence of a supreme being and since it's part of people's traditions, conventions and customs i believe that the burden of proof should be on the party claiming the nonexistence. If you want to discredit a widely accepted theory, you'd better have a real proof.

Since proving the existence or the nonexistence apparently isn't very possible and that only arguments are used then as i said in my previous post, the belief or nonbelief in god is only a matter of a personal opinion.
Therefore discussing whether god exists or not without having a solid proof is just a vicious circle.

so whether you believe in god or not depends on your education, your personal experiences, your own way of seeing things and not on rational thinking and common sense.

As I already hinted, the only difference between the god idea and Seek's idea is fame and public acceptance!

History is best witness that public acceptance isn't a credible reference at all!

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by SeekNirvana

The moderate opinion is commendable and much more diplomatic within religious discussions as they tend to get a tide too emotional :) That being said, the burden of proof is hardly justified to be on the party claiming the non-existence.

A more accurate analogy would be the following:

*Start of discussion*
SN: Hey Xena, I believe in a dinosaur that walks on two feet, drinks beer, plays good basketball and has a strong ear for Oriental Jazz.
Xena: Are you sh!tting me?
SN: Prove me wrong young lady! Aha, you can't, therefore he exists and I demand you respect my opinion.
/Xena delivers uppercut punch to the chin followed by a Chuck-Norris-roundhouse kick to the face.
*End of discussion*

lol, what an analogy! I believe in monkeys :) Your belief in that cute dinosaur has no base but in your imagination. God's existance finds its basis in the way the world has been designed to a believer who examines, in the scripture, in history, and in ones self before anything else. If you don't believe in a creator, then how do you explain intelligent nature's creation of male and female dinosaurs (for example) instead of one that breeds from itself? The simplest examination of the world proves that there is a creator (probably to some religions more than others).