Will the FPM survive for the coming years ?

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by GeorgeY

if all those u speak about are correct then how come M14 christians didnt take all cazas
omg just to make problems btw ppl u guys would say anything
taiib why now does our beloved prime minister go to syria? and talk with HA? amd etc...
should the christians always be against all surrounding area and fight the wars of the west?

christians should live in harmony with surrounding people and countries especially syria but there is a huuuge difference between :
being neutral towards syria and sending positive or even negative signals when necessary
or taking your family-party to do a 3 days visit in syria - when things are not totally cleared between the two countries (putting aside the black history of the current regime )

it happened that GMA went as representing a Lebanese party not the Lebanese state - there is a difference

cheers

[Alexdagreat]

Originally Posted by The Jade

Before building your alliances, start by building yourself.

The Gaulliste movement, is indeed, just a movement.

Where are they now ?
Where as the PS is still here, the RPR became the UMP, etc....

But no movement ever lives for a long time.

It's like the chehabist movement, where are they now ???

apply 80% from our manifesto as its written you will have all Lebanon FPMers in no time but the question are we going to apply it ? and what we are waiting till all the good people leave ?
or till we see few parties coming out from our party

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by Alexdagreat

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apply 80% from our manifesto as its written you will have all Lebanon FPMers in no time but the question are we going to apply it ? and what we are waiting till all the good people leave ?
or till we see few parties coming out from our party

manifesto min??
please!! the formula to have a big / solid lebanese party / popular base:
the more you defend the rights of one of the 4 lebanese communities- the more you are popular- simple / straight forward.
FPM did it in 2005 and swept everything possible. FM , PSP and HA/Amal are doing it. FPM in 2009 was focusing on visiting syria and defending HA.

What's good for FPM in 2009 is that it was just before the tipping point. it was a WAKE UP CALL for FPM that the taken path is wrong !!!

one of the two scenarios are possible:
either FPM make a serious realignment and regain lost ground.
FPM continue on the same path and lose heavily in 2013. the END of FPM

Cheers

[kmarthe]

Thank you Jade for this thread,


The debate is on as for the future of FPM and its ability to function and survive as a party with a clear vision. Without a doubt every FPMer longs to the survival of FPM, but survival is the duty of every one of us. In my view, the following issues are very much needed:

1- Separation of FPM and the person of GMA: It is true that GMA is the founder and the spiritual leader of FPM, but binding FPM to GMA alone is not a receipe for survival because the lifespan of the party will be determined by the lifespan of GMA (Allah ytawil bi 3omro). Therefore, FPM has to have a separate leadership and it is GMA's responsability to guide and ensure the existence of this leadership as soon as possible so the Lebanese people inside and outrside the country get used to new faces that carry GMA's message and ideas. The new leadership has to be young, charismatic, well educated and have strong communication and PR skills. I am pretty sure that FPM has many candidates that fulfill these requirements.

2- Back to the roots: FPM started as a popular movement, its members were ordinary ciziens, often hiding their political identity and most of them were students following their dream and investing their energy to pursue it defying the Syrian occupation at that time. I quote the article of As-safir (July 10th, 2009) FPMers had no personal objectives and never cared about becoming ministers/deputies/celebrities/etc. As such, FPMers started as a national dream driven by the people and not as people driven by their personal dreams. What happened after the 2005 elections is unfortunately that FPM's huge success in 2005 favored the personal aspect of the dream with respect to the national aspect. Even though it is not a shame for somebody to have personal ambitions, but the problem is that many FPMers started to see only their own future above that of the FPM mission, which distanced them from the roots of FPM that are the ordinary people. We stopped interacting with the people on the ground and we took for granted that people will follow us blindly whatever we do. Today we need to go back to those people and to listen to them without an air of superiority. What I care about is FPM and not to become an FPM cadre !! We need to engage every citizen in our dream and make them understand the rightfulness of our cause.

3- A new look for our political message: The political understanding/alliance with HA and the strategic political move by GMA to make the Christians closer to the environment in which they are living is in my view the best way to ensure the survival of the Christian existence in Lebanon and hence in the Middle East. Experience shows that the West never cared about the Christians in this part of the world and is ready to sacrify them whenever its interests require so (for example, the Christians of Iraq). However, the magnitude of the shift that GMA did surpassed the ability of many in the Christian street to understand its importance and agree to it. We FPMers understood it and we trusted GMA in this move. But we failed to transmit our understanding to many others, which made us vulnerable to attacks from every side including the Church. We were portrayed as Syrian/Iranian and preachers of Wilayat-el-Faqih, and many ordinary citiznes believed those lies and voted against us. We were only counting on GMA to defend FPM's position, but we did not come up with the appropriate means to defend our giant political move. We had to engage every FPMers as well as the social and political entities of our allies in a big public campaign to explain to people our objective, and to make them understand that Wilayat-el-Faqih and other labels are not true. We had to invest the efforts of every FPM committee to relay our message directly to every other Lebanese citizen especially the popular bases of our opponents. Therefore, we and our allies have to adopt a new ways defending our will to live together and to create a solid and authentic national unity.

4- Addressing the Lebanese diaspora: Many Lebanese outside Lebanon were subject to our opponents media for some years now, and the image of FPM in the diasora have been damaged badly. A new approach for the FPM intishar is urgently required, first, to replace the FPM committees in places where they have failed considerably (mainly due to internal conflicts and personal interests) and, second, to re-inforce the committees that we were successful (and they are many around the globe). FPM committees in the diaspora need to be more present in the Lebanese communities and more vocal. Organize meetings (not only fund raising dinners!!), give talks, promote new ideas, etc. these could be efficient to regain some presence in the Diaspora. Besides, we need to get inspired by the political parties in the western countries and follow their style and have regular conventions for our delegates.

5- A far reaching and aggressive FPM media campaign: A first step is to make OTV reach every corner of the world !!! A second step is to use talk shows (Oprah style) to reach the biggest audience possible inside and outside the country. New social as well as political interactive programs are needed, and FPM has many experts in this domain who can bring up subjects and ideas to transmit our message to a broader audience.

I hope our debate, even though it started on the FPM forum, reaches the leadership and those working behind the scene to regenerate FPM and make our party an ever lasting institution !

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by kmarthe

Thank you Jade for this thread,


The debate is on as for the future of FPM and its ability to function and survive as a party with a clear vision. Without a doubt every FPMer longs to the survival of FPM, but survival is the duty of every one of us. In my view, the following issues are very much needed:

1- Separation of FPM and the person of GMA: It is true that GMA is the founder and the spiritual leader of FPM, but binding FPM to GMA alone is not a receipe for survival because the lifespan of the party will be determined by the lifespan of GMA (Allah ytawil bi 3omro). Therefore, FPM has to have a separate leadership and it is GMA's responsability to guide and ensure the existence of this leadership as soon as possible so the Lebanese people inside and outrside the country get used to new faces that carry GMA's message and ideas. The new leadership has to be young, charismatic, well educated and have strong communication and PR skills. I am pretty sure that FPM has many candidates that fulfill these requirements.

2- Back to the roots: FPM started as a popular movement, its members were ordinary ciziens, often hiding their political identity and most of them were students following their dream and investing their energy to pursue it defying the Syrian occupation at that time. I quote the article of As-safir (July 10th, 2009) FPMers had no personal objectives and never cared about becoming ministers/deputies/celebrities/etc. As such, FPMers started as a national dream driven by the people and not as people driven by their personal dreams. What happened after the 2005 elections is unfortunately that FPM's huge success in 2005 favored the personal aspect of the dream with respect to the national aspect. Even though it is not a shame for somebody to have personal ambitions, but the problem is that many FPMers started to see only their own future above that of the FPM mission, which distanced them from the roots of FPM that are the ordinary people. We stopped interacting with the people on the ground and we took for granted that people will follow us blindly whatever we do. Today we need to go back to those people and to listen to them without an air of superiority. What I care about is FPM and not to become an FPM cadre !! We need to engage every citizen in our dream and make them understand the rightfulness of our cause.

3- A new look for our political message: The political understanding/alliance with HA and the strategic political move by GMA to make the Christians closer to the environment in which they are living is in my view the best way to ensure the survival of the Christian existence in Lebanon and hence in the Middle East. Experience shows that the West never cared about the Christians in this part of the world and is ready to sacrify them whenever its interests require so (for example, the Christians of Iraq). However, the magnitude of the shift that GMA did surpassed the ability of many in the Christian street to understand its important and agree to it. We FPMers understood it and we trusted GMA in this move. But we failed to transmit our understanding to many others, which made us vulnerable to attacks from every side including the Church. We were portrayed as Syrian/Iranian and preachers of Wilayat-el-Faqih, and many ordinary citiznes believed those lies and voted against us. We were only counting on GMA to defend FPM's position, but we did not come up with the appropriate means to defend our giant political move. We had to engage every FPMers as well as the social and political entities of our allies in a big public campaign to explain to people our objective, and to make them understand that Wilayat-el-Faqih and other labels are not true. We had to invest the efforts of every FPM committee to relay our message directly to every other Lebanese citizen especially the popular bases of our opponents. Therefore, we and our allies have to adopt a new ways defending our will to live together and to create a solid and authentic national unity.

4- Addressing the Lebanese diaspora: Many Lebanese outside Lebanon were subject to our opponents media for some years now, and the image of FPM in the diasora have been damaged badly. A new approach for the FPM intishar is urgently required, first, to replace the FPM committees in places where they have failed considerably (mainly due to internal conflicts and personal interests) and, second, to re-inforce the committees that we were successful (and they are many around the globe). FPM committees in the diaspora need to be more present in the Lebanese communities and more vocal. Organize meetings (not only fund raising dinners!!), give talks, promote new ideas, etc. these could be efficient to regain some presence in the Diaspora. Besides, we need to get inspired by the political parties in the western countries and follow their style and have regular conventions for our delegates.

5- A far reaching and aggressive FPM media campaign: A first step is to make OTV reach every corner of the world !!! A second step is to use talk shows (Oprah style) to reach the biggest audience possible inside and outside the country. New social as well as political interactive programs are needed, and FPM has many experts in this domain who can bring up subjects and ideas to transmit our message to a broader audience.

I hope our debate, even though it started on the FPM forum, reaches the leadership and those working behind the scene to regenerate FPM and make our party an ever lasting institution !

regarding point 3 - it's not about that christian were not able to understand -they understood fully !!!!
FPM didn't understood what christians want

[Alexdagreat]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

manifesto min??
please!! the formula to have a big / solid lebanese party / popular base:
the more you defend the rights of one of the 4 lebanese communities- the more you are popular- simple / straight forward.
FPM did it in 2005 and swept everything possible. FM , PSP and HA/Amal are doing it. FPM in 2009 was focusing on visiting syria and defending HA.

What's good for FPM in 2009 is that it was just before the tipping point. it was a WAKE UP CALL for FPM that the taken path is wrong !!!

one of the two scenarios are possible:
either FPM make a serious realignment and regain lost ground.
FPM continue on the same path and lose heavily in 2013. the END of FPM

Cheers

thats just a part from what i am talking about please read our manifesto

[Venom]

at this current rate the Christians will extinct in Lebanon or become a small minority , an insignificant one.....

Historically Christian parties followed this trend.

[Armenian]

Originally Posted by Revolution1989

I don't know. Ideology scares me. I like principles... there aren't that many principled parties in Lebanon (maybe Tashnag and HA only)...

Again, I don't want to interfere in FPM internal problems, but let me give my opinion...

1) A party CANNOT survive without an ideology... I am sorry to say this, till now non of the FPM partisans know whether the party is left? Right? Socialist? Communist? Capitalist?

Without an ideology I don't understand how a party can rule a country when it gets to power...

2) I said it before and will say it again; you should know the answer to the following question: Is the party an aim or a mean to another aim?
This is very important and unfortunately none of the Lebanese party thinks about it...

My personal opinion ( as we study in my party) is to always see the party as a mean and the aim should be the people, and in the same way when we get to power, never consider the state as the aim ( USA & Israel ) but a mean to serve the people ( Sweden ).

If one day I am obliged to burn my party's flag for the sake of my country, I will not think for a second to do it...

3) ELECTIONS and no appointing inside the party on any of the positions... from the smallest to the biggest...

It's been years that I am a partisan in this party and I never saw any position appointed. Everything is done by elections...

4) Chance for all partisans to criticize the leadership.

The partisans, ALL of them, should have the chance to sit down infront of the leadership and criticize their work... Even if that person is GMA

5) General meeting every year or every 2 years and a chance for all partisans to submit mandates for the coming leadership to follow.

The mandates are voted on, and the new leadership doesn't have the chance but to follow that mandate. If it doesn't, during the next general meeting you will have the chance to criticize the leadership...

These are just very few examples of what a party can do to survive...

There are 120 year old parties in Lebanon, you can look and read their constitution to have an idea on how to preserve a party...

Thank you!!

[Revolution1989]

Originally Posted by Armenian

...
1) A party CANNOT survive without an ideology... I am sorry to say this, till now non of the FPM partisans know whether the party is left? Right? Socialist? Communist? Capitalist?

Without an ideology I don't understand how a party can rule a country when it gets to power...

...
My personal opinion ( as we study in my party) is to always see the party as a mean and the aim should be the people, and in the same way when we get to power

Ok, I think it could be semantics... The way I see it, FPM should focus on the the second part of the above, because this is what distinguishes it from the rest of the Lebanese parties (A bit like what Kmarthe posted as a quote from Safir).
Honestly, at this stage, we're not really in a position to debate whether we should be socialists, liberals, conservative, etc... The Lebanese electoral body is clearly not mature enough to understand those nuances... heck, they don't even "appreciate" the difference between an honest person and a criminal.
I would argue the debate on the ideology (unless you try to mimick that of the Lebanese society to a certain extent) is premature...

I agree fully with your point about stating more clearly the purpose of the party, adding transparency and democracy into the party's own governance...

And as for the pseudo "ex FPMers" on the thread, seriously, spare us your broken record comments...

Thanks

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by Revolution1989

Ok, I think it could be semantics... The way I see it, FPM should focus on the the second part of the above, because this is what distinguishes it from the rest of the Lebanese parties (A bit like what Kmarthe posted as a quote from Safir).
Honestly, at this stage, we're not really in a position to debate whether we should be socialists, liberals, conservative, etc... The Lebanese electoral body is clearly not mature enough to understand those nuances... heck, they don't even "appreciate" the difference between an honest person and a criminal.
I would argue the debate on the ideology (unless you try to mimick that of the Lebanese society to a certain extent) is premature...

I agree fully with your point about stating more clearly the purpose of the party, adding transparency and democracy into the party's own governance...

And as for the pseudo "ex FPMers" on the thread, seriously, spare us your broken record comments...

Thanks

spare us this honest person / criminal and dirty / clean
who cares???
is HA weapons dirty or clean?
is Syria dirty or clean?
is SSNP dirty or clean?
is SF dirty or clean?