Why the governemnt wants HA's weapons first and not Palestinian weapons?

[tae]

Originally Posted by Jameloka6

And thats exactly what they want.
Palestinian groups kill Lebanese Soldiers----> they rebuild their camps.
HA beats and kills Israelis attacking Lebanon--> they want to disarm them.
Wow, and the crazier thing is that people still try to justify those actions. I would tip my hat off for you and show you some respect if you wouldnt try to cover these issues up, and just like your "government" act with arrogance fully revealing your true intentions.
Cheers.

Exactly .. it is "their" government, "their" university,"their" hospital, their ISF, their airport ...
You have to know tat it is so disgusting for more than 60% of the Lebanese people to see pictures of saudi politicians in the parking of "beirut national airport" .. before naming it hariri's airport, you should consider that more than 60% of the lebanese people hate this man and consider him as a thief.
You have to know, that we live here too.

[Dark Angel]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

Oh really? The state was completely free from 1990 to 2005 right? The Syrians let us do whatever we want. Lek how short is this thing that you call a memory ?

it seems that hariri & his followers were free enough to pocket 15billion USD and put the state under 45 billion USD in debt. i imagine that would weaken a state quite a bit; wouldn't you say so?

Parroting what Aoun says is not a good argument. Elias El-Murr was not informed of the discovery plain and simple, that's why it was brought up now. Second, the issue of the phone-lines were brought up only in 2007. If it was before that then I urge you to bring an article forward regarding this matter from the previous years.

i am not sure what your calendar reads, but mine has been set to 2008 for 5 months now; i've read about this subject in the papers in early 2007; and I am not sure how I would be parroting GMA if i mentioned that this has been public knowledge for a while and isn't something that got uncovered last night. if Murr, sabh, sanyoura just found out about it, then they are all a bunch idiots and none of them should be in post, to say the least.

For some one that doesn't want to change the subject, you sure do know how to change the subject. I mentioned two sentence regarding this issue, and then moved on.

this being a public forum i simply dont want you to mislead the average reader into believing that the points you brought up are valid if left unchecked, because while they may appear true on the surface they are governed by a very flawed approach down below.

instead of branching of on tangents, can you provide us any validation as to why HA weapons should take priority over the palestinian camps? especially since you are supporting the LF this season; you must have a very strong motivation to overlook organizations with a long and bloody history of bloodshed against all Lebanese especially the Christians, and focus on one that has yet to prove to be hostile against you or the people you represent.

[tae]

Originally Posted by Dark Angel

it seems that hariri & his followers were free enough to pocket 15billion USD and put the state under 45 billion USD in debt. i imagine that would weaken a state quite a bit; wouldn't you say so?

You can't blame them, they were forced by the syrians to do that

[Jameloka6]

Originally Posted by tae

Exactly .. it is "their" government, "their" university,"their" hospital, their ISF, their airport ...
You have to know tat it is so disgusting for more than 60% of the Lebanese people to see pictures of saudi politicians in the parking of "beirut national airport" .. before naming it hariri's airport, you should consider that more than 60% of the lebanese people hate this man and consider him as a thief.
You have to know, that we live here too.

Dont worry, they serve as doormats for Lebanese returning to their home country, every summer i go back, i step out of the plane, thank God for a safe flight and for a beautifull country, spit in the direction of those pictures and go enjoy the meditarenean.
In front of every palace, there is a big doormat. Thats what these pictures are.

[Diabolo_7]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

FPMers have obviously come a long way since 2005. One has to simply look at the archives to see how opinions have dramatically changed. Accusations of being zionist imperialist agents are flying left and right which pretty funny.

Anyway, the problem is that Hizballah is growing stronger by the minute, because no one is setting its limits. It is acting as a state within a state. The government did not remove its right to resist, but it's placing restrictions on its way of operations. The question in itself is flawed because the government also did not mention anything with the weapons, but Hizballah like the Syrians ties everything to its weapons.

The phone lines are apparently part of its weapons, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument, because the phone lines are simply not weapons. If you people actually want a true government to be built, you should know that the restrictions are important to keep it within the law. Hizballah did not ask the government if it could place these lines, which goes beyond its role as a resistance. Furthermore, the threats launched by Hizballah are a simple representation of how they hold the Lebanese state. They want a Lebanese state that is subservient to them and not the other way around.

In any other country, those phone lines would have been illegal to say the least.

However, looking at the phone lines out of the context of the Lebanese Israeli conflict, falls under short sightedness and naivety to say the least.

When you look back at what HA was capable to achieve in July 2006, you find that those phone lines play an integral role in giving HA communications capabilities without being intercepted by the Israelis. HA dealt with the issue once during the July 2006 war, It was when Hassan Nasrallah made one phone call using a regular line, only to have the Israelis bomb the location shortly after.

The govt in its latest action, is telling HA, that in case another war happens with Israel, we are on Israel's side, because we want to prevent you from having a secure communications network, so that the next time Israel wants to find Nasrallah, they will be capable of doing so, and doing that they would have helped us get rid of 1 last hurdle in our quest to rule the country uncontested.

Regards

PS: you want to get rid of the illegal communications network, in addition to getting rid of HA's autonomous security, and the weapons, you have to tackle the reasons behind them, which basically comes down to solving the Lebanese Israeli conflict.

[drinkaholic]

Originally Posted by Dark Angel

it is time to start asking the right questions.

why is the government so eager to strip away HA's weapons and is overlooking the palestinian camps? especially with the camps becoming a breeding grounds for extremist organizations like 3issabit el ansar, fat7 el eslem, jnoud el sett, and others?

Excelllent question Dark Angel !!

Palestinian camps have become a true nightmare with all these extremist groups entering freely

Unfortunately,the victims of these extremists will be Lebanon and the innocent,average Palestinian refugees

I hope the government looks into this issue,which is a real national threat

I guess it's because of regional forces that wont allow this issue

How come in Arab countries,the Palestinian refugee camps are peaceful? Yet in Lebanon,they are a fertile soil for extremists? Why dont the Palestinian themselves kick them out of the camps? I thought Fatah for example was secular !

Very unfortunate,Salafist and Wahhabi extremists are a top threat to Lebanon,for all

Salam

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by drinkaholic

How come in Arab countries,the Palestinian refugee camps are peaceful? Yet in Lebanon,they are a fertile soil for extremists? Why dont the Palestinian themselves kick them out of the camps? I thought Fatah for example was secular !

Very unfortunate,Salafist and Wahhabi extremists are a top threat to Lebanon,for all

Salam

salam drink,

Don't you find it irrelevent if Fata7 was secular or not?.. I personally don't mind having talibanists, salafists, wahhabi-takfirists or even wild hungry cannibals as our temporary guests or visitors. They can rumble, mumble and flex their insides out as much they want for all i care, they wouldn't bother me, as long as they don't carry arms. Although there's a chance their psychotic hysteria may push them to use their nails and teeth to get a juicy bite out of my leg, weapons and explosives in their hands have a longer range to reach and hurt me.

[revolution425]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

FPMers have obviously come a long way since 2005. One has to simply look at the archives to see how opinions have dramatically changed. Accusations of being zionist imperialist agents are flying left and right which pretty funny.

Anyway, the problem is that Hizballah is growing stronger by the minute, because no one is setting its limits. It is acting as a state within a state. The government did not remove its right to resist, but it's placing restrictions on its way of operations. The question in itself is flawed because the government also did not mention anything with the weapons, but Hizballah like the Syrians ties everything to its weapons.

The phone lines are apparently part of its weapons, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument, because the phone lines are simply not weapons. If you people actually want a true government to be built, you should know that the restrictions are important to keep it within the law. Hizballah did not ask the government if it could place these lines, which goes beyond its role as a resistance. Furthermore, the threats launched by Hizballah are a simple representation of how they hold the Lebanese state. They want a Lebanese state that is subservient to them and not the other way around.

mr wise cookie who I hope is really wise,these phone lines were not constructed yesterday which means that the army and the government knew about them. Now what is the real problem with HA.Its not his phone lines who by the way are important for the way they operate unless you believe that no one is after HA then thats a different story. The concept of dawli keeps popping up when these lines are mentioned, in a way thats really a good thing for it means that we as lebanese have finally evolved to the point were we recognize the importance of an accountable government to be in place. I hope that these calls are not temporary and that all the lebanese leaders are willing to participate in this government and be ruled by this government. The reason that WJ is going crazy over HA is not his sense that there needs to be a dawli,its purley political. certain people are gelous of HA and what they accomplished. Put aside military aspects and lets talk about social ones,HA has more accountability among its members than the government has on its employees,is it HA fault that he follows a strict code when it comes to organization or money I dont think so. Today HA is required not only to hand its weapons but dismantle all its social organizations. HA has money and thats a fact but so does harriri and so does WJ and does berri and so does ja3j3 etc ....in simple terms they cant do things like HA so they fight it. Mark my words handing in the weapons will not be enough and the list of demands will keep on growing and growing.

[texasleb]

I am not affiliated with anyone so I hope no one tries to label me... but my feeling is that one of the main reasons the government or people like me want hizballah disarmed before the palestinian is very simple............... summer of 2006..... The palestinians did not start it... and whether you want to argue if Israel was going to attach anyway,well hey I did not tell hisballah to go kidnap some soldiers a week after hamas did the same thing in gaza and got bombed like crazy...they should have known better.... The army can handle the palesitinians, yes I know it took them forever in nahr el baled but they were able to do it and they did it by avoiding civilian casualties.. so I know it would have gone a lot faster if they were inhumane and just blasted the place..

So basically what I am trying to say is that there is a fear that hizballah can start another war at any time, and that is not a situation people like to be in, powerless and no control over what happens in your own country.. and please don;t try to attack me for the way I think cause I can guarantee you a lot of people feel the same way so try to understand that and figure out a way to make that fear go away...

[Abou J]

Originally Posted by texasleb

I am not affiliated with anyone so I hope no one tries to label me... but my feeling is that one of the main reasons the government or people like me want hizballah disarmed before the palestinian is very simple............... summer of 2006..... The palestinians did not start it... and whether you want to argue if Israel was going to attach anyway,well hey I did not tell hisballah to go kidnap some soldiers a week after hamas did the same thing in gaza and got bombed like crazy...they should have known better.... The army can handle the palesitinians, yes I know it took them forever in nahr el baled but they were able to do it and they did it by avoiding civilian casualties.. so I know it would have gone a lot faster if they were inhumane and just blasted the place..

So basically what I am trying to say is that there is a fear that hizballah can start another war at any time, and that is not a situation people like to be in, powerless and no control over what happens in your own country.. and please don;t try to attack me for the way I think cause I can guarantee you a lot of people feel the same way so try to understand that and figure out a way to make that fear go away...

No labelling whatsoever, dont worry. Just try to follow this reasoning:

If there are armed strangers in your country vs. armed fellow citizens, regardless of motives and causes, who would you want to disarm first?

Keep in mind that one of the reasons that Shiites carried arms was not only to fight Isreal, but also because of the persecution they suffered at the hands on palestinians in the south.

Want more? Did the palestinian weapons achieve anything in the past 50 yrs? Did HA weapons achieve anything?

More? Were palestinian weapons ever used against you? Were HA weapons ever used against you?

I hope you reach the same conclusion as I did.