Why the governemnt wants HA's weapons first and not Palestinian weapons?

[WiseCookie]

FPMers have obviously come a long way since 2005. One has to simply look at the archives to see how opinions have dramatically changed. Accusations of being zionist imperialist agents are flying left and right which pretty funny.

Anyway, the problem is that Hizballah is growing stronger by the minute, because no one is setting its limits. It is acting as a state within a state. The government did not remove its right to resist, but it's placing restrictions on its way of operations. The question in itself is flawed because the government also did not mention anything with the weapons, but Hizballah like the Syrians ties everything to its weapons.

The phone lines are apparently part of its weapons, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument, because the phone lines are simply not weapons. If you people actually want a true government to be built, you should know that the restrictions are important to keep it within the law. Hizballah did not ask the government if it could place these lines, which goes beyond its role as a resistance. Furthermore, the threats launched by Hizballah are a simple representation of how they hold the Lebanese state. They want a Lebanese state that is subservient to them and not the other way around.

[Abou J]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

The phone lines are apparently part of its weapons, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument, because the phone lines are simply not weapons. If you people actually want a true government to be built, you should know that the restrictions are important to keep it within the law. Hizballah did not ask the government if it could place these lines, which goes beyond its role as a resistance. Furthermore, the threats launched by Hizballah are a simple representation of how they hold the Lebanese state. They want a Lebanese state that is subservient to them and not the other way around.

Communication is one of the most crucial weapons to have and maintain prior, during, and post warfare.

This will clarify your confusion between an M16 and a telephone cable.

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

FPMers have obviously come a long way since 2005. One has to simply look at the archives to see how opinions have dramatically changed. Accusations of being zionist imperialist agents are flying left and right which pretty funny.

Anyway, the problem is that Hizballah is growing stronger by the minute, because no one is setting its limits. It is acting as a state within a state. The government did not remove its right to resist, but it's placing restrictions on its way of operations. The question in itself is flawed because the government also did not mention anything with the weapons, but Hizballah like the Syrians ties everything to its weapons.

The phone lines are apparently part of its weapons, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument, because the phone lines are simply not weapons. If you people actually want a true government to be built, you should know that the restrictions are important to keep it within the law. Hizballah did not ask the government if it could place these lines, which goes beyond its role as a resistance. Furthermore, the threats launched by Hizballah are a simple representation of how they hold the Lebanese state. They want a Lebanese state that is subservient to them and not the other way around.

actually, WiseCookie, the phone network is part of the weapons.... whether you are with the weapons or not, the network is as important as a rocket...

during the war of 2006, Robert Fisk claimed that HA was able to destroy at the beginning of the war a very important outpost of the Israeli air force. That was responsible for the communication between different IDF groups.

in the same article, Fisk talks about the fact that despite all electronics and advanced equipments, the IDF remained blind to what was the strategy of HA and the whereabouts of different leaders of the resistance...

and he even questionned whether HA itself breached the IDF communications...

During the American Civil War, logistics were as importnat as anything else.. As the Northern Armies were heading south, they were soon followed by railroads and telegraph poles...

kappa

[Dark Angel]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

FPMers have obviously come a long way since 2005. One has to simply look at the archives to see how opinions have dramatically changed. Accusations of being zionist imperialist agents are flying left and right which pretty funny.

Anyway, the problem is that Hizballah is growing stronger by the minute, because no one is setting its limits. It is acting as a state within a state. The government did not remove its right to resist, but it's placing restrictions on its way of operations. The question in itself is flawed because the government also did not mention anything with the weapons, but Hizballah like the Syrians ties everything to its weapons.

The phone lines are apparently part of its weapons, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument, because the phone lines are simply not weapons. If you people actually want a true government to be built, you should know that the restrictions are important to keep it within the law. Hizballah did not ask the government if it could place these lines, which goes beyond its role as a resistance. Furthermore, the threats launched by Hizballah are a simple representation of how they hold the Lebanese state. They want a Lebanese state that is subservient to them and not the other way around.

that's really bull and you know it WC.

Tone changed
yes the tone has changed. We've had differences with HA; mainly the weapons, and we have established a road map with HA to solve these differences without any bloodshed[1]. if you happen to favor a violent end over supporting our solution, then we cant prevent you from committing suicide. if you have an alternate peaceful solution please suggest it.

what kind of blood thirsty monsters do you take us for? we have differences with HA and we're working to solve them in a way that does not lead to a bloodshed, based on mutual respect and a mutual acknowledgment of the rights of each side. And we would like to be able our differences with the loyalists in the same way; unfortunately they lack both the credibility and the good will to make such a commitment; as they have continue to prove on daily basis.

HA Getting Stronger
HA is not getting stronger. the state is getting weaker. HA has been more organized than the state for the last couple of decades, because the state is ran by corrupt and rotten individual who could care less about the state and they just want to use it to harvest their own power.

The communications network
The communications network was being used for military purposes to coordinate action on the ground. it goes beyond saying that all other networks in Lebanon are infiltrated.

This network has been uncovered years ago; why select to make it an issue at this specific moment? i'll tell you why, because it is being used as a pretext to justify other actions. the same applies to WJ's security cam discovery.


PS don’t change the subject!!! The subject is why are the loyalist ignoring the Palestinian camps while insisting on disarming HA, even at the cost of a new civil war!!!

[WiseCookie]

Originally Posted by kappa273

actually, WiseCookie, the phone network is part of the weapons.... whether you are with the weapons or not, the network is as important as a rocket...

during the war of 2006, Robert Fisk claimed that HA was able to destroy at the beginning of the war a very important outpost of the Israeli air force. That was responsible for the communication between different IDF groups.

in the same article, Fisk talks about the fact that despite all electronics and advanced equipments, the IDF remained blind to what was the strategy of HA and the whereabouts of different leaders of the resistance...

and he even questionned whether HA itself breached the IDF communications...

During the American Civil War, logistics were as importnat as anything else.. As the Northern Armies were heading south, they were soon followed by railroads and telegraph poles...

kappa

Yes. You're right. Part of Hizballah's military strategy is through communications. I however, do not consider them capable of doing something like this without the government's consent. Are they working for Lebanese sovereignty or their soveriegnty?

Second, I tackled the way the question was proposed, since no one in the government talked about removing HA's weapons. The question in itself is misleading. We can argue that communications are considered as weapons and part of Hizballah's jurisdiction to place them wherever they want. But that's not the point of this question is it ?

[Qwiw]

It's unbelievable!

In July 2006, Israel launches a war against Lebanon and for the first time, a lebanese resistance, which is called Hezbollah, is preventing them to enter in Lebanon... it's the first military succes against the israeli army. But the response of this governement is to disarm this succesful resistance...

Last year, "palestinian arms" launched a war against our army and the response of this government is that they will mobilize the international community to rebuild the palestinian camp of Nahr el Bared.


So, there is something fishy here... the governement want to disarm a 15-years officially recognized and succesful resistance (and recognized by this governmental declaration) which never used its arms against fellow Lebanese, and in the other hand, they want to protect palestinian arms which were the origin of our civil war and which killed our army soldiers yet just last year.

And after that, they are telling us we are dreaming when we are suspecting them to naturalize Palestinians in Lebanon!

[WiseCookie]

HA Getting Stronger
HA is not getting stronger. the state is getting weaker. HA has been more organized than the state for the last couple of decades, because the state is ran by corrupt and rotten individual who could care less about the state and they just want to use it to harvest their own power.

Oh really? The state was completely free from 1990 to 2005 right? The Syrians let us do whatever we want. Lek how short is this thing that you call a memory ?

The communications network
The communications network was being used for military purposes to coordinate action on the ground. it goes beyond saying that all other networks in Lebanon are infiltrated.

This network has been uncovered years ago; why select to make it an issue at this specific moment? i'll tell you why, because it is being used as a pretext to justify other actions. the same applies to WJ's security cam discovery.
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Parroting what Aoun says is not a good argument. Elias El-Murr was not informed of the discovery plain and simple, that's why it was brought up now. Second, the issue of the phone-lines were brought up only in 2007. If it was before that then I urge you to bring an article forward regarding this matter from the previous years.

PS don’t change the subject!!! The subject is why are the loyalist ignoring the Palestinian camps while insisting on disarming HA, even at the cost of a new civil war!!!

Originally Posted by Dark Angel

[font="Book Antiqua"][size="3"][color="RoyalBlue"]that's really bull and you know it WC.

Tone changed
yes the tone has changed. We've had differences with HA; mainly the weapons, and we have established a road map with HA to solve these differences without any bloodshed[1]. if you happen to favor a violent end over supporting our solution, then we cant prevent you from committing suicide. if you have an alternate peaceful solution please suggest it.

what kind of blood thirsty monsters do you take us for? we have differences with HA and we're working to solve them in a way that does not lead to a bloodshed, based on mutual respect and a mutual acknowledgment of the rights of each side. And we would like to be able our differences with the loyalists in the same way; unfortunately they lack both the credibility and the good will to make such a commitment; as they have continue to prove on daily basis.

For some one that doesn't want to change the subject, you sure do know how to change the subject. I mentioned two sentence regarding this issue, and then moved on.

[tae]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

FPMers have obviously come a long way since 2005. One has to simply look at the archives to see how opinions have dramatically changed. Accusations of being zionist imperialist agents are flying left and right which pretty funny.

Anyway, the problem is that Hizballah is growing stronger by the minute, because no one is setting its limits. It is acting as a state within a state. The government did not remove its right to resist, but it's placing restrictions on its way of operations. The question in itself is flawed because the government also did not mention anything with the weapons, but Hizballah like the Syrians ties everything to its weapons.

The phone lines are apparently part of its weapons, which is an absolutely ridiculous argument, because the phone lines are simply not weapons. If you people actually want a true government to be built, you should know that the restrictions are important to keep it within the law. Hizballah did not ask the government if it could place these lines, which goes beyond its role as a resistance. Furthermore, the threats launched by Hizballah are a simple representation of how they hold the Lebanese state. They want a Lebanese state that is subservient to them and not the other way around.

- the phone lines were one of the secrets of success in july 2006, and HA's weapons have always been directed toward our official ennemy, israel.
Before expressing your discomfort about hearing FPMers refuse supporting the zionist plan in the area, you should go ask the so called prime minister (who definitely needs a blood test) to declare that he is not against the zionist plan in the area.

-What do you call a state where the ISF becomes the military wing of hariri's militia, the national university, the airport and everything in lebanon become called after him? I call it Hariristan. If you insist on using the expression of state wihin a state, say it the right way, a state within hariristan.

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

Yes. You're right. Part of Hizballah's military strategy is through communications. I however, do not consider them capable of doing something like this without the government's consent. Are they working for Lebanese sovereignty or their soveriegnty?

i was not able to follow the flow of ideas, especially the last 2 sentences..

Originally Posted by wisecookie

Second, I tackled the way the question was proposed, since no one in the government talked about removing HA's weapons. The question in itself is misleading. We can argue that communications are considered as weapons and part of Hizballah's jurisdiction to place them wherever they want. But that's not the point of this question is it ?

so you agree that dismantling the communication network will only benefit Israel... this network is not competing with the government for resources and is not being used for financial goals.... it is strictly military and apparently had something to do with the victory over the israeli invasion of 2006....

destroying this network may be a first step to confirm an israeli victory...

kappa

[Jameloka6]

it is strictly military and apparently had something to do with the victory over the israeli invasion of 2006....

destroying this network may be a first step to confirm an israeli victory...

kappa

And thats exactly what they want.
Palestinian groups kill Lebanese Soldiers----> they rebuild their camps.
HA beats and kills Israelis attacking Lebanon--> they want to disarm them.
Wow, and the crazier thing is that people still try to justify those actions. I would tip my hat off for you and show you some respect if you wouldnt try to cover these issues up, and just like your "government" act with arrogance fully revealing your true intentions.
Cheers.