War on Gaza - Open discussion

[Xguy]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

hehee... In your dreams my friend
jews know exactly how to deal with such terrorist culture
this is what the west US & Europe are trying to adopt
next generation europe will treat u the way u deserve
no more easy going with racist and extremists

This is not new, you and I know very well that this conflict is very old, thousands of years old, you tried in the past and failed , you fought the barbaric way, the intelligent way, the econimical way, the religous way, and still failed, our race is here to stay in fact looking at half of europe , the north half of Africa all south america (excluding natives) , and half of north America all have that dark olive skins and dark hair seems like we're not only here to stay looks to me like we're here to conquer

PS: what color hair do you have BTW , don't go getting pissed at your mom now ya hear? not her fault, c'est la vie mate

[J. Abizeid]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

hehee you ain’t seen nothing yet ;)

I’ve seen this guy though,


For how long you think you can fool every one every time?
If you can’t sense the American taxpayers including American Jews waking up for the reality of their misery, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
History can repeat itself…. You know….

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

1-Israel may disappear in 20 years but your terrorist culture would be broken for sure. Unless you adapt to medernity or you die.

depend which terrorist culture you are talking about... the most successful has been the israeli army terrorist culture.. it's the one which has been successful in killing the most civilians (perhaps after the Nazis)

as for the Bin Laden terrorist culture.. i am kind of surprised you are complaining about Bin Laden and his salafi buddies, since despite how successful they have been in the USA, Europe, Africa, Asia and Oceania, they have never even tried to perform any attacks on Israel... kind of surprising, don't you think?

2-Iraqi christians were not given notice to go elsewhere. They were slaughtered by someone sharing your ideology

Iraqi Christians were slaughtered by the same people who were financed by the CIA, the same people who were given free hand in Iraq after the "Bush Liberation"... the same people who day and night claim to hate israel yet fail to hurt any israeli...

3-Palestinian civilians are being used as human shields for islamist extremist, iran & co to tease israel. Everybody knows such a war would lead to a civilian massacre... so you don't give pretext by launching rockets

besides, the israeli government and you, everybody else in the world has condemned Israeli targetting of innocent and unarmed civilians.. perhaps all those people from UN officials to the Vatican, to many many (even US) reporters, they are all Goyim and are a subspecies... basically, they are all wrong... and u are the only right person in the world... the 3 years old found dead half-buried in the ground was recognized as a Khamas official, isn't it?

just read what Rabbi Michael Lerner said:

"It breaks my heart to see the terrible suffering in Gaza and in Israel. As a religious Jew I find it all the worse, because it confirms to me how easy it is to pervert the loving message of Judaism into a message of hatred and domination."

kappa

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by kappa273

depend which terrorist culture you are talking about... the most successful has been the israeli army terrorist culture.. it's the one which has been successful in killing the most civilians (perhaps after the Nazis)

as for the Bin Laden terrorist culture.. i am kind of surprised you are complaining about Bin Laden and his salafi buddies, since despite how successful they have been in the USA, Europe, Africa, Asia and Oceania, they have never even tried to perform any attacks on Israel... kind of surprising, don't you think?




Iraqi Christians were slaughtered by the same people who were financed by the CIA, the same people who were given free hand in Iraq after the "Bush Liberation"... the same people who day and night claim to hate israel yet fail to hurt any israeli...



besides, the israeli government and you, everybody else in the world has condemned Israeli targetting of innocent and unarmed civilians.. perhaps all those people from UN officials to the Vatican, to many many (even US) reporters, they are all Goyim and are a subspecies... basically, they are all wrong... and u are the only right person in the world... the 3 years old found dead half-buried in the ground was recognized as a Khamas official, isn't it?

just read what Rabbi Michael Lerner said:

"It breaks my heart to see the terrible suffering in Gaza and in Israel. As a religious Jew I find it all the worse, because it confirms to me how easy it is to pervert the loving message of Judaism into a message of hatred and domination."

kappa

1- they will target anything different than them not just jews:
from south philippines, to south thailand, to waziristan, to parisian suburbs, to manchester ghettos, to madrid trainstation, to afghansitan, to kashemir , to mumbai hotels, to chechenia, to the balkans, to south sudan , somalia and nigeria and of course palestine - these are the frontiers of world that cannot accept anything different - kell el bei2eh nejis
2 - fi mou2amara !! ma heik??? it's all because of CIA iraqi christians are beign slaughtered !! - 7akeh ma elo me3na
3- stop using the civilian miseries for political gains - israel have the right to defend itslef - the criminal and the coward is the one that lunch rockets and hides between civilians

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

1- they will target anything different than them not just jews:
from south philippines, to south thailand, to waziristan, to parisian suburbs, to manchester ghettos, to madrid trainstation, to afghansitan, to kashemir , to mumbai hotels, to chechenia, to the balkans, to south sudan , somalia and nigeria and of course palestine - these are the frontiers of world that cannot accept anything different - kell el bei2eh nejis

your friend Bin Laden and his Saudi buddies reached the whole world except Israel and perhaps Antarctica...

if you claim the opposite, can you please enlighten us with one suicide operation claimed by the saudis in Israel?

2 - fi mou2amara !! ma heik??? it's all because of CIA iraqi christians are beign slaughtered !! - 7akeh ma elo me3na

Bush claims to be a born-again Christian and talks to God daily (VOIP or regular phone line?), yet he failed to protect any of those Christians, who most of them are actually either in Syria or Lebanon... oh my God, Syria ruled by the so-called heretic Alawite, and according to the Bush twisted logic allied with the saudi Bin Laden, protecting the "moushrikin" Christians, attacking Saudi Bin Ladenites... were you able to follow the flow of ideas in this statement? because this is the logic you believe in.. .

3- stop using the civilian miseries for political gains - israel have the right to defend itslef - the criminal and the coward is the one that lunch rockets and hides between civilians

besides Bush, Olmert, Natanyahu, Lieberman (the racist minister in Israeli), Livni (who wanted to transfer the arab israelis), Hariri and Saudi Arabia, and you of course, everybody has rejected this idea...

Do you know what the Vatican's statement contained?

kappa

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by kappa273

your friend Bin Laden and his Saudi buddies reached the whole world except Israel and perhaps Antarctica...

if you claim the opposite, can you please enlighten us with one suicide operation claimed by the saudis in Israel?





Bush claims to be a born-again Christian and talks to God daily (VOIP or regular phone line?), yet he failed to protect any of those Christians, who most of them are actually either in Syria or Lebanon... oh my God, Syria ruled by the so-called heretic Alawite, and according to the Bush twisted logic allied with the saudi Bin Laden, protecting the "moushrikin" Christians, attacking Saudi Bin Ladenites... were you able to follow the flow of ideas in this statement? because this is the logic you believe in.. .



besides Bush, Olmert, Natanyahu, Lieberman (the racist minister in Israeli), Livni (who wanted to transfer the arab israelis), Hariri and Saudi Arabia, and you of course, everybody has rejected this idea...

Do you know what the Vatican's statement contained?

kappa

1 - u r throwing anything ... thawahiri called for jihad agaisnt israel
hamas , islamic jihad, etc... same ideology and same backgrounds how much they differ from bin laden groups??? khaberna

2- you want the american to come and protect christian from muslims???
great !! ye3neh u see muslims as threat - u r confirming my point
why should your muslim neighbour be a threat at first???

3- this is politics and great one from the vatican - don't be very superficial - this is the only thing vatican can do to protect some remaining christian in the east - this is to ease tension because muslim fanatics (the people you are defending) are searching for a reason to attack christians . they don't miss any opportunity to do it

[ecce homo]

"Our goals are clear: we do not want to make Gaza a satellite of Iran, and we don't want a ceasefire but the end of the terror," Shimon Peres told La Repubblica. - AFP

Funny, Israel shares the same goal as Egypt, Jordan and Saudi-Arabia.

[ecce homo]

Where is Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas? What has he done? What is he doing?

[fidelio]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

Where is Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas? What has he done? What is he doing?

Packing? ...

[ecce homo]

Israeli war: Eye for an eye? This is an eye for an eyelash
By Avi Shlaim Author And Professor Of International Relations At The University Of Oxford


The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is to understand the historical context.

I used to think Sir John Troutbeck's 1948 description of Israel as a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders" too harsh, but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza has made me reconsider.

I was a loyal soldier in the Israeli army in the mid-60s and I have never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders.

But I utterly reject the Israeli settlements on occupied Arab territory. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism.

The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged, brutal military occupations of modern times.

Gaza is a classic case of colonial exploitation in the post-colonial era.

Jewish settlements in occupied territories are immoral, illegal and an insurmountable obstacle to peace.

They are at once the instrument of exploitation and the symbol of occupation.

In Gaza in 2005, the Jewish settlers numbered 8,000 compared with 1.4 million local residents. Yet the settlers controlled 25 per cent of the territory, 40 per cent of the arable land and the lion's share of the scarce water resources.

Cheek by jowl with these foreign intruders, the local population lived in unimaginable misery. Eighty per cent of them still subsist on less than 2€ a day.

Living conditions in the Strip remain an affront to civilised values, a powerful precipitant to resistance and a fertile breeding ground for political extremism.

In August 2005 Ariel Sharon's Likud government staged a unilateral Israeli pull-out from Gaza, withdrawing all 8,000 settlers and destroying the houses and farms they left behind.

Israel's settlers were withdrawn but Israeli soldiers continued to control all access to the Gaza Strip by land, sea and air. Gaza was converted overnight into an open-air prison.

From this point on, the Israeli airforce enjoyed unrestricted freedom to drop bombs and to terrorise the inhabitants of this prison.

Israel portrays itself as an island of democracy in a sea of authoritarianism, yet it has never done anything to promote democracy on the Arab side and has done a great deal to undermine it.

Despite all the handicaps, the Palestinian people succeeded in building the only real democracy in the Arab world with the possible exception of Lebanon.

In January 2006, fair elections brought to power a Hamas-led government.

Israel, however, refused to recognise the democratically elected government, claiming that Hamas was purely and simply a terrorist organisation.

The US and the EU shamelessly joined Israel in demonising the Hamas government, and a surreal situation developed with a significant part of the international community imposing economic sanctions not against the occupier but the occupied, not against the oppressor but the oppressed.

Israel's propaganda machine persistently purveyed the notion that the Palestinians are terrorists, that they reject coexistence with the Jewish state, that their nationalism is little more than antisemitism, that Hamas is just a bunch of religious fanatics and that Islam is incompatible with democracy.

But the truth is that the Palestinian people are a normal people with normal aspirations. What they aspire to, above all, is a piece of land to call their own, on which to live in freedom and dignity.

The war unleashed by Israel on Gaza on December 27 was the culmination of a series of clashes with the Hamas government. Its declared aim is to weaken Hamas until it agrees to ceasefire on Israel's terms. The undeclared aim is to ensure that the Palestinians in Gaza are seen by the world simply as a humanitarian problem and thus to derail their struggle for independence and statehood.

As ever, mighty Israel claims to be the victim of Palestinian aggression but the sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little doubt as to who is the real victim. The resort to military force is accompanied, as always, by the shrill rhetoric of victimhood, self-pity and self-righteousness.

To be sure, Hamas is not an entirely innocent party. Denied the fruit of its electoral victory, it has resorted to the weapon of the weak - terror. Militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad kept launching rocket attacks against Israeli settlements near the border with Gaza until Egypt brokered a six-month ceasefire last June.

The damage caused by these primitive rockets is minimal but the psychological impact is immense, prompting the public to demand protection from its government.

Under the circumstances, Israel had the right to act in self-defence but its response to the pinpricks of rocket attacks was totally disproportionate.

The figures speak for themselves. In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. But in 2005-7 alone, the Israel Defense Forces killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children.

Whatever the numbers, killing civilians is wrong. This applies to Israel as much as it does to Hamas, but its record is one of unbridled and unremitting brutality towards the inhabitants of Gaza.

The brutality of Israel's soldiers is fully matched by the mendacity of its spokesmen.

Eight months before launching the current war on Gaza, Israel established a National Information Directorate. The core messages of this directorate to the media are that: Hamas broke the ceasefire agreements; Israel's objective is the defence of its population; and Israel's forces are taking the utmost care not to hurt civilians. In essence, this propaganda is a pack of lies.

It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It did so by a raid into Gaza on November 4 that killed six Hamas men. Israel's objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza.

And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a three-year blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza to the brink of catastrophe.

The Biblical injunction of an eye for an eye is savage enough. But Israel's insane offensive against Gaza seems to follow the logic of an eye for an eyelash.

After eight days of bombing, with a death toll of more than 400 Palestinians and four Israelis, the gung-ho cabinet ordered a land invasion of Gaza. The consequences of this are incalculable.

Avi Shlaim is the author of The Iron Wall: Israel And The Arab World.

Israeli war: Eye for an eye? This is an eye for an eyelash - mirror.co.uk