War on Gaza - Open discussion

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Libnene Qu7

I agree with the point you're making, but Hamas had all the odds against them from the beginning. Using your logic of X times Spirit, Moral, Faith doesn't stand for **** if you don't have proper reinforcement and replenishment (ie Logistics) for the war. Hamas was blockaded from all sides, they couldnt even import a bullet.

Yes they were not importing Much weapons (they did import sum but not many), HOWEVER having all the odds against you and overcoming these odds is still a victory, GAZA was underseige before HAMAS came to it, GAZA did not break the cease-fire, Israel and a few Arabs saw the time was right (and it was) For launching a War onthe Political Side which represents the Majoraty of Palestinians and they use any excuse to reach what they want the same way they attacked PLO went it represented the majoraty. Anyone who represents Palestinians and does not accept israeli Orders and Conditions will be executed because the palestinians have no right to self determination...

[hannaalsayssa]

Originally Posted by The Jade

Yeah, and the gazaouis actually have all of that.

Their moral is great now that they lost their homes and their long lost decency was won now that they have no place to live in

Their way of life has greatly improved, you can just read the UN health report and you can see how great the life is there now

Pride....mmmm.... no house to live, no money to eat and no business to get money, but yeah, **** proud of it

u think all people are like you
well news tro you, they are not.
if humnaity was uo to your likes
slavey will be the norm and oppression will be the rule
as i said
learn form your idols the west and the jews read their history a bit and watch

1-PATRIOTS
2-BRAVEHEARTS
3-THE ALAMO
4-MASSYA
5-SAMSON THE JABBAR

than come and let us argue

[hannaalsayssa]

Originally Posted by michael29187

I have to ask about all this talk of the coming destruction of the state of Israel .In your eyes you guys have had two historic victories so why not just attack it right now and be done with it.

again u guys need to read more and learn a bit form history

u bring your enemies one chip at a time and surviving sometimes is half the victory.

usa could have brought the soviets in a war in one day but at what cost, it just chipped bit by bit at it.

the time thing in here, war of attrition.
israel must be really hurting, because all its apologists arguing the otehr case round.

yalla , i hope u guys or your kids and descendnets shall not be that cocky about israel , when with time it will wither nad just emigrate back to oblivion form our area and land.

the OIL clock is ticking tick tack, the lesser the oil is important the lesser israel is likely to survive.

do not be sad, maybe they will still be around on our life time but definitely not on our grandkids own.

[Xguy]

Che Guevarra, "I would rather die standing on my feet then live on my knees"

nuff said

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Xguy

Che Guevarra, "I would rather die standing on my feet then live on my knees"

nuff said

Did you watch that recent movie?

For the guy saying "why don't you just attack israel and get it over with" I say it is not that simple, we might need to attack other people first In order to create a unified front capable of Attacking israel and getting it over with.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Libnene Qu7

Abousandal, why do you insist that Hamas won? It clearly was dealt a heavy blow due to the fact that it can barely launch rockets anymore into Israel.

The Israelis 2 days ago announced a cease fire unilaterally! Never in their history was this ever done! Yesterday the Hamas leadership in Damascus replied with a cease-fire announcement. Ye3ni no one is left in Gaza!

It doesn't matter how many Hamas fighters or Israeli soldiers were killed, what matters is that Israel met its announced objective of halting the rockets. Unfortunately, this will get into their heads and will inevitably re-look at HA.

LQ7,

I understand what you're feeling,but i will ask you to take a step back and look at it from a strategical angle.

The plan was clear:Get into the cities and destroy Hamas,take effective and full control of the whole Gaza band,then later,hand it to the Egyptians.

The real goal was to destroy the resistance then partition the remaining Palestinian territories into 2 separate entities:One that would be ruled by Egyptian controlled government,and another one ruled by an Israeli controlled government.

This was the deal between the so-called moderate Arabs and Israel to terminate once and for all the Palestinian cause.

But they needed first to kill the spirit of resistance and finish off everything related to Hamas and its electoral weigh and power.

And this is why troops were sent on the ground,otherwise,Israel could have just bombed and bombed Gaza for ever.

The issue has nothing to do with Hamas being able to launch firecrackers or not.(And btw,Hamas never had a high rate of rocket launching at the first place,yet they still launched on the last day a little more than 20 rockets...till the last moment...which is i think their average daily rate...even if this is still comparable to firecrackers)

Anyway,the issue is about taking over the only bastion of resisting Palestine,and terminating the Palestinian cause.

Yet Hamas held very well the besieged cities and Israel couldn't ultimately get them...Which is what matters at the end of the day...no matter the high destruction inflicted on Gaza...

Israelis predictions were that Hamas would collapse and surrender within 3 to 5 days,ask for immunity to leave the cities and then,IDF would take over and begin a final and irreversible clean up,before handing Gaza to Egypt.


Israel failed to destroy Hamas and "clean up" Gaza from the resistants.It even failed to get inside any city or camp,however encircled and destroyed it was.


Thus the whole plan that was to follow such defeat,ended up collapsing.

I invite you to read once again the article that i posted from the Angry Arab blog...There are further details of Israel's failures in it.

And this was only possible because Hamas held the cities and defended them,at a high cost i agree,but nevertheless,they kept control and prevented Israel from getting in.

This means that Hamas is now untouchable...Which also means that Hamas can now get a better arsenal for the future and protect it...Which also means that now,a reality has come inevitable:US and Israel has no longer options than to deal with Hamas,that has become the legitimate and only real representative of the Palestinian people.

Whatever Hamas agrees on,goes...And whatever Hamas refuses,will not pass anymore.

This is a new political reality that Israel has no option but to deal with.

This is the first big step for Hamas.

A clear and undeniable victory,not only for Hamas,but also to the Palestinian cause that is today,in a more favorable position than it was yesterday...However weak that position might be...But not for long...

[Frisbeetarian]

The price has been heavy, yet the will to survive and resist remained. Amidst all onslaught of the enemy, amidst its military superiority; ground, air and sea. Amidst months of starvations and deprivation, amidst division and ruptures. Amidst all these adversities, the enemy has failed to brick our will, the enemy has failed to achieve what he has set out to do. The enemy failed to stop the missiles (they rained till the day of the ceasefire), they mobilized and enacted, to their dismay, a resurging fire of resistance that was reignited in the war of 06. They have failed to turn our people against Hamas, on the contrary, they bulked our resolve in them.

What kind of superpower, cannot stop a guerrilla movements, barely funded, barely armed, with missiles that practically have no guidance system? What kind of superpower, boasting one of the worlds deadliest military armada's, cannot stop a group of freedom fighters building home made grenades and missiles? Ill tell you what kind of superpower. One that is built upon greed and injustice. One that boasts soldiers that cower inside armored tanks, while planes bombard our valiant fights from the air. This is your enemy my friend, and this is our resolve. Rejoice at our resistance and mourn our fallen brethren, they will be avenged.

This is the resolve that broke their myths 2 years and here it is, breaking it, to pieces once again.

You Israelis have accomplished nothing. The only real victory you could have had, was by eliminating Hamas, not half dead, not barely breathing...completely scourged. But your puny forces failed, and so will your resolve after it. Hamas under the banner of resistance, will rise again, for it has gained even more support from the people, and by the people it will fight again. Missiles will not stop, we will not stop. Even if you kill tens of millions of us, we will never forgo our right and our lands.

The only thing that you have accomplished, is the destruction. You achieved to kill thousands of us. You have achieved to demolish infrastructure, livelihood, healthcare, food supplies and still we resist. Study your enemy, we will not fall this way.

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

LQ7,

I understand what you're feeling,but i will ask you to take a step back and look at it from a strategical angle.

The plan was clear:Get into the cities and destroy Hamas,take effective and full control of the whole Gaza band,then later,hand it to the Egyptians.

The real goal was to destroy the resistance then partition the remaining Palestinian territories into 2 separate entities:One that would be ruled by Egyptian controlled government,and another one ruled by an Israeli controlled government.

This was the deal between the so-called moderate Arabs and Israel to terminate once and for all the Palestinian cause.

But they needed first to kill the spirit of resistance and finish off everything related to Hamas and its electoral weigh and power.

And this is why troops were sent on the ground,otherwise,Israel could have just bombed and bombed Gaza for ever.

The issue has nothing to do with Hamas being able to launch firecrackers or not.(And btw,Hamas never had a high rate of rocket launching at the first place,yet they still launched on the last day a little more than 20 rockets...till the last moment...which is i think their average daily rate...even if this is still comparable to firecrackers)

Anyway,the issue is about taking over the only bastion of resisting Palestine,and terminating the Palestinian cause.

Yet Hamas held very well the besieged cities and Israel couldn't ultimately get them...Which is what matters at the end of the day...no matter the high destruction inflicted on Gaza...

Israelis predictions were that Hamas would collapse and surrender within 3 to 5 days,ask for immunity to leave the cities and then,IDF would take over and begin a final and irreversible clean up,before handing Gaza to Egypt.


Israel failed to destroy Hamas and "clean up" Gaza from the resistants.It even failed to get inside any city or camp,however encircled and destroyed it was.


Thus the whole plan that was to follow such defeat,ended up collapsing.

I invite you to read once again the article that i posted from the Angry Arab blog...There are further details of Israel's failures in it.

And this was only possible because Hamas held the cities and defended them,at a high cost i agree,but nevertheless,they kept control and prevented Israel from getting in.

This means that Hamas is now untouchable...Which also means that Hamas can now get a better arsenal for the future and protect it...Which also means that now,a reality has come inevitable:US and Israel has no longer options than to deal with Hamas,that has become the legitimate and only real representative of the Palestinian people.

Whatever Hamas agrees on,goes...And whatever Hamas refuses,will not pass anymore.

This is a new political reality that Israel has no option but to deal with.

This is the first big step for Hamas.

A clear and undeniable victory,not only for Hamas,but also to the Palestinian cause that is today,in a more favorable position than it was yesterday...However weak that position might be...But not for long...

I heard they were gonna hand a part of the WestBank to jordan and not keep it directly under Abbas if this mission succeeds.

[hhhh23]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

The high death toll and the amount of destruction has nothing to do with the outcome of the war.

Saying otherwise is plain simplicity and ignorance of history and the dynamics of war.

How about i reverse your argument in another way:

Israel can once a month defeat Hamas and whomever it wants in the region,including HA,only by bombing civilians and killing few hundreds of them.Without the need to send troops on the ground at the first place.

Does that sound like a victory?

Because according to your logic,this sounds like a victory.If yes,then why did Israel call that a defeat in 2006?

You should maybe ask them this question,don't you think?

You should maybe read what I write, dont you think? You certainly did not grasp what I have said. I did not claim that Israel achieved a VICTORY, far from that. However, Hamas did NOT achieve any victory either.

What happened in this war, is that both parties inflicted damage on each other. The damages that Israel inflicted on the Palestinians are beyond repair, and the death toll is huge. On the other hand, the damage that Hamas inflicted on the Israelis is bearable, those 50 soldiers can be replaced by bringing 50 jews from Russia or some western country.

All in all, it was a loss on both sides, but the loss from the Palestinian side is far far more than the Israelis.

Certainly, all wars have casualties, however, wars that are WON by a side or the other, end with one of the sides actually "WINNING" something. Unfortunately, no one won in this war.

However, if we have 10 or 20 more of such "victories" for Hamas, then you would have a death toll of around 12 000 to 24 000 palestinians with over 50 000 to 100 000 wounded. On the other hand, you would have a death toll of 500 to 1000 Israeli soldiers. Keep up the rhythm for a few years, and you will certainly have no more Palestinians to live in Gaza.

Finally, I am sure that you are more experienced than me in wars, you know better about victories and I am such a small person compared to you, so I am in no position to tell you that Hamas did not win, and I apologize for that.

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by hhhh23

You should maybe read what I write, dont you think? You certainly did not grasp what I have said. I did not claim that Israel achieved a VICTORY, far from that. However, Hamas did NOT achieve any victory either.

What happened in this war, is that both parties inflicted damage on each other. The damages that Israel inflicted on the Palestinians are beyond repair, and the death toll is huge. On the other hand, the damage that Hamas inflicted on the Israelis is bearable, those 50 soldiers can be replaced by bringing 50 jews from Russia or some western country.

All in all, it was a loss on both sides, but the loss from the Palestinian side is far far more than the Israelis.

Certainly, all wars have casualties, however, wars that are WON by a side or the other, end with one of the sides actually "WINNING" something. Unfortunately, no one won in this war.

However, if we have 10 or 20 more of such "victories" for Hamas, then you would have a death toll of around 12 000 to 24 000 palestinians with over 50 000 to 100 000 wounded. On the other hand, you would have a death toll of 500 to 1000 Israeli soldiers. Keep up the rhythm for a few years, and you will certainly have no more Palestinians to live in Gaza.

Finally, I am sure that you are more experienced than me in wars, you know better about victories and I am such a small person compared to you, so I am in no position to tell you that Hamas did not win, and I apologize for that.

All you need to know is that Israel Had a project in GAZA and that Project failed miserably, not only that but the entire Plan collapsed a few days after the ground attack and the results are more than negative for israel In all domains.