War on Gaza - Open discussion

[TripolySunni]

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organisation? No It is the legitimate Resistance and Government of the Palestinian people and is Chosen by them. Why did they choose It? because it resisted When Fateh Stopped resisting. Why is Israel attacking HAMAS? because they are willing to negotiate the 1967 borders and Adopt the two state solution as well as Negotiate the Refugee problem and find a Solution for that, TWO THINGS that israel & America do not want to happen. Did ISRAEL WIN THIS RECENT WAR? No they did not destroy HAMAS, they did not Stop the missiles, They did not impose thier Conditions, They ruined thier image totally and lost all hopes for peace with the Arab governments, More Palestinians are becoming militants, Israel could not Spread International forces in GAZA to stop the weapons leaking into the Strip, The Cowardly withdrawal of IDF totally damaged thier deterent Force and Pride more so than it was damaged in 2006, They lost next Tourism seasons (hehe)... Israel Lost Alhamdullilah. They only managed to Kill and destroy civilians and thier reaction will be more Arial bombardment but not ground attacks.

[Nonan]

Originally Posted by tagidli

Thats my point exactly - what do you think would have happened if IDF progress into GAZA - the HAMAS would have shooting from inside the home of civilians and blew up houses (with the people inside) just to kill Israeli soldiers. ?

I am far from being a supporter of HAMAS but...

-It was israeli bombs, missiles and bullets that killed over 1,200 civilians, including more than 400 children, regardless of the context.
-It was Israeli bombs that destroyed schools, food supplies, all in UN clearly identified building.
-It was Israeli soldiers that blocked the red cross from reaching civilian wounded
If this war proved anything, it is the utter contempt of Israeli military and government for non-Israeli lives, international conventions and NGO

And if you want to start talking again about the "context" and the lame missiles HAMAS sends, I would suggest you apply the UN resolutions of withdrawing from Gaza, west bank, East-Jerusalem, Golan, allowing the return of the refugees and then we'll talk...

I mean, who still believes in this rethoric that Israel has to show it can defend itself? It has the best equipped army in the region, has the nuclear bomb and is neighbored by Arab regimes who are totally aligned with its policies (KSA, Jordan, Egypt)

[tae]

Originally Posted by spiderboy

What did Hamas acheived?
They cosed killed 1200 innocent Palestinians, they caused the distruction of Gaza, they caused the sufference of 5000 wounded civilians.

Was it worth launching those lousy rockets?

spiderboy, the 1200 innocent palestinians who died were killed by the white phosphorus and DIME bombs.
Was it worth launching rockets .. well .. if you think that the revolutions and resistance movements in the world were worth it .. then you must accept this one too. Their land is occupied, and they are the official resistance now.

Originally Posted by spiderboy

woulek even the Palestinians in the West-Bank were against Hamas, and partly approoving the war on Gaza as per this morning reportage on Euronews when they did random interviews with palestinians in West Bank.

This is ridiculous, west bank were demonstrating daily 24 hours/24, supporting Hamas, specifically fat7. Watch Jazira shou baddak bi euronews w ghayra.

Originally Posted by spiderboy

i hope that all those so-called resistence groups learned a leasson, that wars will not solve their problems.

lets see what will happen now :)

We have never seen a people liberate a land without resistance .. if you want to liberate your land, you have to fight.
Fate7 has been trying to get back a part of their lands through negociations for years .. what did they get? nothing.

[Nonan]

Originally Posted by tae

spiderboy, the 1200 innocent palestinians who died were killed by the white phosphorus and DIME bombs.
Was it worth launching rockets .. well .. if you think that the revolutions and resistance movements in the world were worth it .. then you must accept this one too. Their land is occupied, and they are the official resistance now.
.

To be totally fair, I doubt this had anything to do with "liberating" Palestine... The bottom line is that it was solely for "internal consumption":

- Israeli elections
- Hamas vs. Abbas "legitimacy"... And the poor 1,200 Gazaouit were killed by the Israelis for nothing...

What is more surprising is the ability of Egypt, Jordan and KSA to pull it off...

It means that the Arab "street" has really shifted and has found a new "fizza3a" ... Iran, instead of Israel

Very interesting and telling for the coming few years.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Nonan

To be totally fair, I doubt this had anything to do with "liberating" Palestine... The bottom line is that it was solely for "internal consumption":

- Israeli elections
- Hamas vs. Abbas "legitimacy"... And the poor 1,200 Gazaouit were killed by the Israelis for nothing...

What is more surprising is the ability of Egypt, Jordan and KSA to pull it off...

It means that the Arab "street" has really shifted and has found a new "fizza3a" ... Iran, instead of Israel

Very interesting and telling for the coming few years.

Are you seriously implying that the Arab STREET is shifting its animosity from ISRAEL to IRAN?

Oh god.

[Nonan]

Originally Posted by Zayn

Are you seriously implying that the Arab STREET is shifting its animosity from ISRAEL to IRAN?

Oh god.

I am simply saying that KSA, Egypt and Jordan were able to implicitly support Israel against Hamas (supported by Iran) and we have not seen any riots in any of these countries...

Either they have become much better at controlling their population or they are leveraging another trend that is helping them "counterbalance" their support to the "palestinian cause"...

Again, I am offering this for debate, I don't live in those countries nor do I have any real contact with Egyptians, Saoudis or Jordanians... Some of you here might and could shed a light on what I'm saying: either confirm or say it is total rubbish... if the latter, then please help me explain the shift in PUBLIC attitude for those regimes

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Zayn

Are you seriously implying that the Arab STREET is shifting its animosity from ISRAEL to IRAN?

Oh god.

this is what some sides have been trying to acheive recently but it is far from being done and this recent War Has destroyed this plan completely and all thier money spent on propaganda has been wasted THIS IS A FACT.

[Xguy]

Originally Posted by Nonan

I am simply saying that KSA, Egypt and Jordan were able to implicitly support Israel against Hamas (supported by Iran) and we have not seen any riots in any of these countries...

What do you watch? you haven't riots in Egypt, Jordan, or even in KSA? are you serious?

[Nonan]

Originally Posted by Xguy

What do you watch? you haven't riots in Egypt, Jordan, or even in KSA? are you serious?

I don't have a TV so my main new sources are the internet:
Tayyar
LeMonde
BBC

So let me know if I missed anything... The only thing I read was a defiant Egyptian Actor blaming Hamas...(adel Imam)

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Nonan

I am simply saying that KSA, Egypt and Jordan were able to implicitly support Israel against Hamas (supported by Iran) and we have not seen any riots in any of these countries...

Either they have become much better at controlling their population or they are leveraging another trend that is helping them "counterbalance" their support to the "palestinian cause"...

Again, I am offering this for debate, I don't live in those countries nor do I have any real contact with Egyptians, Saoudis or Jordanians... Some of you here might and could shed a light on what I'm saying: either confirm or say it is total rubbish... if the latter, then please help me explain the shift in PUBLIC attitude for those regimes

Since when do dictators accurately measure the pulse of the street? There were no explicit protests for Hamas because the governments of the countries in question break these protests up and jail the protesters. This is how dictatorships work. There is no room for independent thought and the propaganda agencies of these governments are constantly pumping out rubbish to feed their citizens.

Hamas and Hezbollah are threats to the traditional powers of the Arab world. They are democratic and populist.

Read this article.

The Angry Arab News Service/وكالة أنباء العربي الغاضب: Forgot to mention

"Another failure of Israel was in the Arab media sector. The Israeli-Egyptian-Saudi plan in Gaza clearly had a component that relied on the Saudi media. You look at Saudi media in the first two days and realize that the plan utilized the propaganda outlets of the House of Saud--the allies of Zionism. But even that plan backfired: Al-Arabiyya TV came under attack and had to retract and to change its coverage of Gaza. AlJazeera won the day: that was expected (studies show that at times of crisis AlJazeera becomes THE CHANNEL for the Arabs, and you can look at Alexa studies of the internet sites of both Al-Arabiyya and AlJazeera and see) but one easily say that this crisis led to another re-emergence of AlJazeera. Al-Arabiyya suffered and had to hide Dahlan after the third day."

As much as you want Iran to be the focus of hatred of the Arab world, that will never happen. The Iran-Syria-Hezbollah-Hamas alliance has the support of the Arab street while the Saudi-Egypt-Jordan-Abbas alliance has the support of American and Israel. I wonder who will last longer.