"there is no democracy in lebanon.if there is democracy hassan nasrallah would have been president"

[loubnaniTO]

We don't lack democracy in this country, we lack the sense of nationalism and human value. In fact we use democracy to scr*w each other whenever we get the chance.

[Dry Ice]

Yes for SHN as president if he does not mix religion and politics.

[elias-aj]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

I think that there has been a lot of waste of time and energy in this thread,although the subject itself, is of the utmost importance for the future of this country.

I suggest that we discuss it in the light of those 3 questions:

1-Do you think that a sectarian system and a sectarian constitution, like the ones we have in Lebanon,can be qualified or can be compatible with the word "democracy"?

Let's consider the definition of democracy - which is debatable from a philosophical and legal point of view - : Basically, it's a corpus of philosophical and political principles in regard of which, a social group set up the rules regarding its functionning. Those rules are created, decided, implemented and monitored by the members of this social group.

Hence, there are many different forms of democracy.

In Lebanon, we form a specific social group which, in fact, is divided in several second social groups according to each group confession.

In order to form a country, those different groups agree on a sectarian system based on the consensual principle.

The current sectarian system and our sectarian constitution were adopted by the lebanese accordingly.

Our representatives are elected under sectarian rules but, as people do vote and have the possibility to chose their representatives among several candidates and as anybody can present his candidacy, provided the respect of the sectarian rules in this matter, this sectarian system with all its flaws is a democratic system.

But a specific one : it's a consensual democracy.

Now does it fit with my opinion about democracy...well, not that much.

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

2-Do you think that in a secular democratic system,everyone would have the opportunity and the equal chance to get elected at any post,thus very popular men like GMA or SHN would be easily elected at the highest state offices?

Theoretically, yes. But in case we keep our strict parliamentary system where MP have no direct mandate from the people or from their constituency but a general one - each MP representing the Nation and not its proper constituency, MPs can vote for a man who's not the most popular (for President, then PM ...).

It's a wide and interesting question which should be adressed within the scope of the question related to the institutional system.

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

And final question,

3-Do you really want the Lebanese system to become a secular democracy?Are you ready for that?A system where even a monkey (to take back Mehdi Soldier's figure of speech) can be elected president of the republic.

I'm all for it. Although I don't think that given our recent history, the current situation and our issues, we can implement a secular democracy right now. But we have to work for it and to start reforming our political system, step by step.

On a side note, this sectarian system is linked with our feudal heritage. Removing sectarianism needs that we fight against the services form of our society too (as much as we must fight to change people's minds and convince them that we must consider ourselves lebanese brothers, whatever our religion or social background is).

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Yes for SHN as president if he does not mix religion and politics.

D.I you forgot a few: What about mixing Iranian money and politics? and mixing Weapons and politics?

Also, how would he do that? he is already mixed in a blender with all of the above :)

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

D.I you forgot a few: What about mixing Iranian money and politics? and mixing Weapons and politics?

Also, how would he do that? he is already mixed in a blender with all of the above :)

If he uses Iranian money for the benefit of Lebanon as much as he did for his community, that is OK - as for the weapons, they would be the state's weapons once he becomes president..

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

If he uses Iranian money for the benefit of Lebanon as much as he did for his community, that is OK - as for the weapons, they would be the state's weapons once he becomes president..

For the money, him using foreign funds to benefit the country and then be elected on a populist campaign, amounts to buying the presidency :)

For the weapons, them becoming property of the state after he takes the helm, is akin to a coup :)

[Zayn]

I think people are failing to realize that secularism actually works in Hezbollah's favor. They represent the largest and most powerful sect, and the only thing that keeps them at bay politically is the Parliamentary structure.

[Frisbeetarian]

For the weapons, them becoming property of the state after he takes the helm, is akin to a coup :)

How is it a coup if he is elected by the people?

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

For the money, him using foreign funds to benefit the country and then be elected on a populist campaign, amounts to buying the presidency :)

For the weapons, them becoming property of the state after he takes the helm, is akin to a coup :)

I prefer to see him as a lobbyist for foreign direct investment post election, as for the weapons, they'd be a continuation of the defense strategy.. a matter of perspective.

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by friendofzeus

How is it a coup if he is elected by the people?

The point being he needs to relinquish his weapons to the state, before he runs for elections... then it wont be a coup.