"there is no democracy in lebanon.if there is democracy hassan nasrallah would have been president"

[Zghertewe]

Originally Posted by Random

Oh dear Lord, spare us your poetic speech, will you? It's not like people in the south where the only ones living in difficult conditions, eveyone in Lebanon has had their share of suffering, and it's sad but true. What people in the south went through because of the israeli occupation was felt elsewhere in Lebanon because of the syrian presence.
And then the army is constantly accused of being weak and then asked why it didn't play a role in south, which by the way wasn't accessible to the army until a couple of years ago.
No one in Lebanon is better than anyone else, and no one is more lebanese.

I am not here to entertain you, these are facts. Lebanon did suffer from the Syrian occupation but nothing compared to what the people in the south went through, so they have every right to defend themselves.
I am not accusing the army, I am accusing the Lebanese government in general and accusing the people who criticizes HA left and right.

[4U2IMI8]

Originally Posted by Greg Davis

Ya Zghertawi

When the south was occupied, Lebanon was split into many semi autonomous enclaves. The difference now is that the "then" enclaves have given up the fundamentals of autonomy and agreed to surpass the past, and rebuild a nation. That also includes the Marada " whom you support".

Hassan Nisrallah and his enclave have maintained their autonomous state, despite the fact that all other factions have been able to move on.

The issue is clear and Hizbullah have a choice to make

Starting from your last sentence, or what? Your statement made me shiver to my spine in fear.
You suppress whatever past you want, we learn from ours and prepare for the future using it.
If you believe we have our own state, so be it. Live with it, adapt to it, because there’s nothing you can do about it but post your useless anger on this forum, that is unless you think bay bayya can help you.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Random

Oh dear Lord, spare us your poetic speech, will you? It's not like people in the south where the only ones living in difficult conditions, eveyone in Lebanon has had their share of suffering, and it's sad but true. What people in the south went through because of the israeli occupation was felt elsewhere in Lebanon because of the syrian presence.
And then the army is constantly accused of being weak and then asked why it didn't play a role in south, which by the way wasn't accessible to the army until a couple of years ago.
No one in Lebanon is better than anyone else, and no one is more lebanese.

Dude,

do not minimize the suffering and oppression of other people at your own discretion,just because it suits your logic and political beliefs.Especially that you have clearly no idea of what you are talking about.

Facts are facts and this is irrelevant of what you chose to see and what you chose to ignore.

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by Greg Davis

Hassan Nisrallah already is a president.

He is the comander in chief of the Nation he and his supporters have created, in the southern suburbs of Beirut and the South of Lebanon. Just because they haven't declared their independance doesn't mean they are not a nation.

you focus on HA and SHN and forget to notice that many of the criteria you list down below also apply to others as well...

what don't you look at Kraytem and Tariq el Jdideh? don't u see something very similar created by hariri as well..

What defines a nation?

Hizbullah have their own "no-go" zones labelled "secutity zones", that only their supporters can access

Have u been to Kraytem lately? the streets around Kraytem are closed and are not accessible to the general public... many secondary streets are simply closed to cars and pesdestrians..

Moukhtara cannot be labelled as a public park as well..

Hizbullah supporters are above the law ( Lebanese Law)

all supporters are above the law.. how many times did Hariri supporters fire in the air and nobody cared about them.. how many times did LF thugs beat FPMers? what about Mark Howayek's shooter?

Hizbullah's foreign policy is not shared by a majority of the Lebanese

do u think Hariri foreign policy benefits from overall lebanese acceptance?

When hariri tries to put Lebanon in the Israeli-KSA-American boat? do u think all lebanese are happy about that?
when Jounblatt goes to Washington and meets each and every zionist in the USA, do u think everybody in Lebanon is ecstatic about it?

Hizbullah have their own economy, that cannot be audited or scrutinized by the government

thank God, our great government headed by Sanioura for more htan 3 years and even before that by Hariri for 12 years didn't monitor anyone...

suddenly, Mansour el Bon can afford public works in Keserwan for more than 5 million dollars... suddenly Ghattas Khoury is delivering crates of food to people in Shouf... I understand Khoury is a physician and by the lousy lebanese medical standards, he is famous and successful but i am not aware that a successful physician in lousy non-ethical lebanese standards can afford those aids...

do u think the lebanese government agreed on Hariri financing Fat7 el Islam or perhaps Bahia Hariri financing Jund el Sham?

We havent forgotted about the infrastructure issue of may last year

????????????????????????????????????????????
infrastructure??????

As to the internal security, we all know what happens to the ISF if they dare venture into the Dahiyeh

which ISF are you talking about? the one used by hariri as a private militia... didn't u hear what happened recently with Fer3 el Ma3loumet and why?

that ISF you are talking about, Fatfat called it "the private March 14 force since the shiite had a militia and the majority of hte Lebanese army officers are maronite and more loyal to GMA" (LA Times)...

also the same ISF which Eido claimed "to sell his blood to provide it with weapons to be able to fight the shiites". (also LA Times)

Lets not forget the Hizbullah army

i agree with you on this one.. unfortunately, HA won elections in 2005 running under this banner and the government "mission statement" in 2005 and 2008 provided legitimacy for those weapons...

not to forget that everybody in Lebanon owns weapons; however, they may not know how to use it...

as for the real weapons (missiles, rockets, high-caliber) of HA, they are saved for Israel... Hariri might feel bad that these weapons are directed against his allies and mentors, the israelis... but he has to live with it because apparently, the lebanese agree on that..

kappa

[Sami.NJ]

Originally Posted by Zghertewe

Where was the Lebanese government when the south was occupied?
Where was the Lebanese army when the south was occupied?
Where was the rest of Lebanon when those people in the south were being killed and bombarded daily?
Where was the rest of Lebanon when the kids of the south could not go to school?
Where was the rest of Lebanon when the people of the south could not have a normal life?
The rest of Lebanon was neyim 3ala harir, partying and having fun. We didn't even care about the south, we didn't bother to help those people and we did not even consider them as part of Lebanon.
God Bless them and I wish we were Lebanese like them.

I can also add that the people of the south didn't give a land to PLO to fight from which the goverment did back then( a goverment that Gamayil Sr was a part of, for the record). People of the south didn't ask for the Syrian to enter Lebanon. People of the south didn't ask the Israeli army to enter Lebanon.
People of the south didn't have any say in all of the above. People of the south are just cleaning the MESS of the other Lebanese.

[Zghertewe]

Don't stereotype, it is a sign of ignorance.
Our country is still under occupation and under daily Israeli aggressions. HA is in the government which is a good step to move forward. Now we need to come up with a solution where we can defend our country and come up with a method to disable all type of militias including HA but not the way Feb14 want. So let us not criticize HA the way they are, and let us focus on being united and everything can be solved. I wish I can hear the same criticisms when it comes to the Palestinians militias in Lebanon before we start talking about HA.

Originally Posted by Greg Davis

Ya Zghertawi

When the south was occupied, Lebanon was split into many semi autonomous enclaves. The difference now is that the "then" enclaves have given up the fundamentals of autonomy and agreed to surpass the past, and rebuild a nation. That also includes the Marada " whom you support".

Hassan Nisrallah and his enclave have maintained their autonomous state, despite the fact that all other factions have been able to move on.

The issue is clear and Hizbullah have a choice to make

[Random]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Dude,

do not minimize the suffering and oppression of other people at your own discretion,just because it suits your logic and political beliefs.Especially that you have clearly no idea of what you are talking about.

Facts are facts and this is irrelevant of what you chose to see and what you chose to ignore.

Well wasn't that really my point? Not to minimize the suffering of people in the south but at the same time not minimizing the suffering of people elsewhere in Lebanon. Do NOT single out anyone here, we've all had our share of suffering and I stand by this.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Random

Well wasn't that really my point? Not to minimize the suffering of people in the south but at the same time not minimizing the suffering of people elsewhere in Lebanon. Do NOT single out anyone here, we've all had our share of suffering and I stand by this.

What are you talking about?

Who talked about anyone else or minimized the suffering of anyone else? You are the one who brought up the issue,comparing the incomparable,and minimizing the sufferings of people at your own discretion,disregarding facts.And it's you now,who is asking me not to do what you just did and up to me to to justify myself to you?

Walla 3ajib...

[Random]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

What are you talking about?

Who talked about anyone else or minimized the suffering of anyone else? You are the one who brought up the issue,comparing the incomparable,and minimizing the sufferings of people at your own discretion,disregarding facts.And it's you now,who is asking me not to do what you just did and up to me to to justify myself to you?

Walla 3ajib...

Originally Posted by Zghertewe

God Bless them and I wish we were Lebanese like them.

Hello?
This is where I started to make my point. What makes anyone in Lebanon more lebanese than anyone else?

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Random

Hello?
This is where I started to make my point. What makes anyone in Lebanon more lebanese than anyone else?

Yes i wish that too.You have no idea how much they sacrificed and endured because they love their country.

Of course i wish that i could be of that brand of Lebanese that they proved to be over the years.To be poor and oppressed,occupied and persecuted,yet sacrifice everything you have for the love of your country.This is not something all people necessarily share.

Nobody talked about "more" or "less" Lebanese,the way you try to portray it,and your reply wasn't even in that direction.

Your reply was more about minimizing their sufferings and merits,comparing the incomparable and ignoring history and facts,than anything else.

And anyway,this was unjustified whatever can be your misinterpretation of the original post.