Tashnag, Armenians, and the Elections

[hunter007]

Originally Posted by scorpion

Thank you,

Memory of Lebanese people is tooo short, and Tashnag partisana all think that fpm is in love with them not because they made him win the elections...

Do you think that if Tshnaq decides to become neutral or see that they want to join M14, FPM and its partisans will still love Tashnag and defend them?? "like they used to defend them before 2005"

You just refresh my memory about relation Ryadi/Sagesse. In Love or Ah Ah Hakim ?

[NExtLeb]

nachra

أشار النائب ميشال المر إلى بعض الثغرات التي شابت العملية الانتخابية في المتن الشمالي، فأعطى بعض الملاحظات "في انتظار البت النهائي من قبل المجلس الدستوري نظرا للخلل الواضح في أقلام الاقتراع في برج حمود وساحل المتن"، معلناً ان لائحة "الانقاذ المتنية" ستقوم بتقديم طعون عند الانتهاء من دراسة الملف امام المجلس الدستوري.

ولفت المر في مؤتمر صحافي إلى أن "الوضع الانتخابي في المتن الشمالي كان في الاسبوع الذي سبق الانتخابات يدل بوضوح ان لائحة "الانقاذ المتنية" ستفوز بأكثرية او كامل اعضائها استنادا الى مواقف اعضائها، مذكراً بان الوضع الانتخابي في المتن كان يدل ايضاً على ان هذه المعركة هي معركة لبنان وسيكون المتنيون الى جانب اللائحة لإنقاذ الوطن.

وسأل: "ماذا جرى يوم الانتخاب ولماذا تغيرت النتائج؟، وقال: "إن الارقام الضخمة للأرمن لا يمكن ان تكون سليمة بناء لوزارة الداخلية والمستندات"، معددا بعضها.

وأوضح "ان مجموع أصوات الارمن كان في العام 2007 في الانتخابات الفرعية 9200 صوت، صبّت لكميل خوري، مذكراً بان الأرمن وقتها جيشوا شارعهم، وجلبوا كل ما لديهم من اصوات للاقتراع لكميل خوري. وقال المر: "بما ان عدد الارمن هو 32341 عام 2007، فتكون نسبة الاقتراع 28 في المئة فقط"، لافتاً إلى ان نسبة الاقتراع عند الارمن كانت دائما لا تتجاوز 27 او 28 او 30 في المئة كأقصى حد".

وأضاف: "في عام 2009، نسبة الاقتراع عند الارمن كان يجب ان تكون 28 في المئة من مجموع الناخبين اي زيادة 500 صوت فقط من الولادات وغيرها. ويجب ان يكون عدد المقترعين 9339 على اساس نسبة 28 في المئة او لوائح وزارة الداخلية، إلا ان ما جرى يوم الانتخاب عام 2009 هو ان عدد المقترعين الارمن بلغ 13700 صوت وفقا للنائب آغوب بقرادونيان، اي بزيادة 4371 صوتاً، يعني بزيادة 50 في المئة، ما يثير الشكوك حول صحة الارقام والاصوات وصدقيتها، ونسأل من اين أتت هذه الاصوات الارمنية وبأي بطاقات انتخبت، هل البطاقات المزورة، ام التلاعب بقيود بعض الناخبين؟.

واعلن المر أن "المطلوب من وزارة الداخلية والنيابة العامة التمييزية والمجلس الدستوري إلغاء الارقام المشكوك بصحتها وصدقيتها والتي تتجاوز النسبة المئوية لاقتراع الارمن الطبيعية وهي معروفة في كل الانتخابات"، موضحاً انه على اساس هذه المعطيات يجب ان يفوز 6 نواب من "لائحة الإنقاذ المتنية" مقابل نائب واحد للائحة النائب ميشال عون".

[NExtLeb]

nachra

ردّ النائب هاغوب بقرادونيان على كلام النائب ميشال المر عن التصويت الارمني في المتن، مشددا على ان "الارمن صوّتوا باعداد كبيرة في انتخابات 2009 نسبة للتصويت في الانتخابات الفرعية في العام 2007، وهو له الحرية بأن يطلع النيابة العامة التمييزية ويتقدم بطعن".

بقرادونيان، وبعد لقائه وفدًا من تكتل "التغيير والاصلاح" في المتن، شدد على أن "المر يعلم ان الطاشناق اعطاه 2200 صوتا فيما أعداد كبيرة لم تنتخبه لاسباب تعود لتململ القاعدة الارمنية منه، ونحن أبلغناه ذلك قبل اسبوع من الانتخابات". وأضاف: "تصريح المر يذكّرنا بأجواء العام 2007 وكيف اتهم السيد غبريال المر حزب "الطاشناق" وحليفه ميشال المر بالتلاعب بالصناديق في الانتخابات الفرعية".

وإذ أكد استمرار التحالف مع "التيار الوطني الحر"، قال بقرادونيان: "نحن احرار في من ننتخب وكيف ننتخب". وأضاف: "عندما يربح احد ما يشكرنا وعندما يخسر يشتمنا".

وابدى بقرادونيان استغرابه "من الذي علمّنا الارقام كيف يستغرب زيادة نسبة التصويت الارمني في المتن بنسبة 10 في المئة". وقال: "هناك من لا يعتبر الارمن من الطائفة المسيحية في لبنان ونحن نقول أن الارمن هم ركن اساسي من لبنان".

[scorpion]

Originally Posted by Armenian

Samer, thanks for clarifying that...

Our position for the past 80 years was next to the president, and this only changed in 2000.

What I suggested is to go back to that position, and that doesn't mean at all being against this or that. If new election is to be held, we will decide who to vote for the same way we did in 2009.

Armenians can't handle to have big enemies and big confrontation. FPM can handle that. We cannot and must not be dragged to big electoral fights and in the end the result will be on the expense of the Armenians, unfortunately like 2009.

Sometimes before replying to any opinion try to put yourself in other people's shoe and say in your head, what would I do??!!

So If you were in the Tashnag leadership what would you do?? The only thing sure is that we cannot keep everything as it is now... No one can understand what the results of 2009 meant to us unless you were inside and saw what kind of work was being held... You only know 10% of it from the media.

Thank you!!

We understand your position and what in the inside you are thinking but can't say it in public right away..
After All you put too much efforts in the elections and gained back 10% of what you were expecting..
Plus for the first or maybe 2nd time in Lebanese history (which you are of course part of) Armenians have taken side with one part against the other and to the bones..

I and you know that the Armenian community perception is to be on good terms with everyone "with the president and the government in the FIRST place" and you know better why..also for this reason you also know why in the whole Lebanese army there are very few officers i can't remember anyone currently other then in the Music corps. well simply because Armenians didn't want to be seen like fighting with one part of the Lebanese ppl against another "not even with Lebanese Army" and it is well known how throughout all the dirty war in Lebanon that Armenians and their areas were not part of any clashes...

But there was a 175 degress turn (not to say complete) in the opposite direction from all the above historical and solid position

MP Pakradonian before the elctions declared many times that they are working on bringing closer M14 and M8 parties and are not with anyone of them..I can't see how this could be accomplished after the fierce battle you faught against one of the two sides

[LebArmenian]

Originally Posted by scorpion

Thank you,

Memory of Lebanese people is tooo short, and Tashnag partisana all think that fpm is in love with them not because they made him win the elections...

Do you think that if Tshnaq decides to become neutral or see that they want to join M14, FPM and its partisans will still love Tashnag and defend them?? "like they used to defend them before 2005"

again and again and again your are REFUSING to unerstand whats happening on the ground. the tashnak represents its PEOPLE. without the people they are NOTHING.

TASHNAK voted for MURR but the PEOPLE crossed his name, the ones who cant read arabic might've voted for him(that could explain the 2000 votes).

i'm ecstatic about today, since from now on NOONE would vote for any MURR.

tashnak partisans, UNLIKE other lebanese judged their conscience before voting and didnt vote for the list that their party gave to them and they voted for the one they wanted to vote for.

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by Armenian

This party will always give instructions to their supporters to guide them in everyday life and not only voting period as some of the parties do in Lebanon. Giving instructions during voting or not giving it is something between the party and its loyal supporters. Let no one interfer in it...

Thank you
That says a lot about tachnag thinking

Originally Posted by Armenian

And who said we won't be in C&R...
I answered to a question my friend Zaki had asked and gave my PERSONAL opinion. That has nothing to do with reality.
So they will keep their promise, don't worry...

Fine, we'll see
I think they are smart enough to be in an independant bloc
If they want more than 2 MPs in 4 years

Originally Posted by Armenian

13 700 Armenian voted in Metn, around 10700 voted for Tashnag.
Tashnag electoral machine gave out 10 700 list with MM name on it. From these people only 2200 wanted to give him the vote.
What did you want us to do, put a gun on their head?
Whenever we vote as a block, people accuse us, and whenever people chose who they want to vote freely...people again accuse us..." 7terna"...
So again, we as a party kept our promise...
And as I said before, MM won with our votes...

No you did not
Mokhtarian clearly said that they were EFFRAID to push MM so they wont make the voters turn away from voting
When you promise, you have to push regardless of the consequences.

[josephfpm]

Originally Posted by e.kid

Thank you
That says a lot about tachnag thinking




Fine, we'll see
I think they are smart enough to be in an independant bloc
If they want more than 2 MPs in 4 years



No you did not
Mokhtarian clearly said that they were EFFRAID to push MM so they wont make the voters turn away from voting
When you promise, you have to push regardless of the consequences.

What the hell does it matter if it's 2 or 4 MPs? It would really stupid if that drove the decisions made by any party. 4 MPs won't do anything for any party, being part of a larger block that cares for the interests of that party will do a lot more. Of course LF and Kataeb are not good examples because it obviously seems that Hariri and Jumblatt don't give a **** about anything they want, they just want them around to keep the majority.

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by josephfpm

What the hell does it matter if it's 2 or 4 MPs? It would really stupid if that drove the decisions made by any party. 4 MPs won't do anything for any party, being part of a larger block that cares for the interests of that party will do a lot more. Of course LF and Kataeb are not good examples because it obviously seems that Hariri and Jumblatt don't give a **** about anything they want, they just want them around to keep the majority.

and what exactly will they be getting more for beiing in C&R instead of not beiing in C&R ? care to clarify instead of talking about kataeb and LF which seems all what you like to do.

I think they'll get more "for their interest" beiing independent in the president bloc
at least that will garantee a seat in the government (which is no sure if they stick in C&R)
they will be neutral, and they wont polarize half the christians against them
they stay on good relation with everyone
.....
for what ?

[generaltsunami]

Originally Posted by e.kid

and what exactly will they be getting more for beiing in C&R instead of not beiing in C&R ? care to clarify instead of talking about kataeb and LF which seems all what you like to do.

I think they'll get more "for their interest" beiing independent in the president bloc
at least that will garantee a seat in the government (which is no sure if they stick in C&R)
they will be neutral, and they wont polarize half the christians against them
they stay on good relation with everyone
.....
for what ?

Listen, for the first time ever politicians SARO YA3MLO 7SEB LAL ARMAN. Ever since Hariri (the father ) took over, he marginilized them without a care....mar rafalo jifin.....now with this electoral law SARO JAME3IT 14 SHBAT YIRIKDO LA3INDON MITIL LIKLEB........The Armenians have a say now and no one can take that away from them.

I am proud to be allied with them and hopefully the feeling is mutual.

When Hagop Pakradonian came to toronto, he told us in a meeting that General Aoun is the first Lebanese leader to fight for Armenians rights to the bone and he accomplished quite a bit in DOHA.

Armenians will never forget that.

[Armenian]

Originally Posted by e.kid

Thank you
That says a lot about tachnag thinking.

Thank you... That says a lot about you!!

Originally Posted by e.kid

Fine, we'll see
I think they are smart enough to be in an independant bloc
If they want more than 2 MPs in 4 years.

So now you seriously think that all we care is the 4 MPs?

Again that says a lot about you!!

Originally Posted by e.kid

No you did not
Mokhtarian clearly said that they were EFFRAID to push MM so they wont make the voters turn away from voting
When you promise, you have to push regardless of the consequences.

Amazing analysis...

First of all it's Afraid, and second of all we weren't afraid to fight the world in 1915 now you're telling me we're afraid to push MM?

Habibi, you don't decide to tell us what we did or we didn't, I was on the ground working in most of the electoral offices and not you and nor Mkhitarian were there and I know exactly what I did and I know exactly what happened more than anyone on the ground... So spare me all the lies and let MM spare all the lies he said today... I wish I was in Lebanon, I would had given a press release to answer all the lies...

Thank you!!