Tashnag, Armenians, and the Elections

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by Dark Angel

that's like telling a kid you have to love either your father or you mother, you cannot love them both, cause if one day they divorced you have to side with one of them against the other.
you can be a good citizen in two states without having to choose which one you "love" more. the concept of citizenships has nothing to do with feelings, it is rather about rights.

Realy ?
You can't choose your parents, the comparison is irrelevent.
When you choose to take a second citizenship, chances are culture will be much different
You will always have preference for one or the other
you can never be at the same distance

you either choose to adopt the new culture, and they will say you have integrated very well
or you choose to keep your original culture, and you will be marginalized
like most of the north african in France

Looking at most arminians in lebanon, and tachnag in particular, after 100 year of immigration, they did not integrate, periode.

in politics, they have what i would call "a supra national party" that extend beyond the frontiers
worth, they conduct their political meetings in armenian, which mean non-arminian are not welcomed
that is racisim, and if we complain, they accuse us of racism
the same exact system the jews follow.

Socialy, they also dont integrate and mix
Majority of children in armenian schools, very few mixed mariages, ..., ...

Last week, on another thread, even an arminian said "Lebanease arminian are the most arminians of their diaspora", meaning the least integrated.
he also admited they could do (should have done) more efforts to better integrate.

that is all what i'am asking for
its not like i want to strip them from their citizenship or civil right
and i wont be saying this if that was first or second generation, but after 100 year, its about time.

[Dark Angel]

Originally Posted by e.kid

Realy ?
You can't choose your parents, the comparison is irrelevent.
When you choose to take a second citizenship, chances are culture will be much different
You will always have preference for one or the other
you can never be at the same distance

you either choose to adopt the new culture, and they will say you have integrated very well
or you choose to keep your original culture, and you will be marginalized
like most of the north african in France

Looking at most arminians in lebanon, and tachnag in particular, after 100 year of immigration, they did not integrate, periode.

in politics, they have what i would call "a supra national party" that extend beyond the frontiers
worth, they conduct their political meetings in armenian, which mean non-arminian are not welcomed
that is racisim, and if we complain, they accuse us of racism
the same exact system the jews follow.

Socialy, they also dont integrate and mix
Majority of children in armenian schools, very few mixed mariages, ..., ...

Last week, on another thread, even an arminian said "Lebanease arminian are the most arminians of their diaspora", meaning the least integrated.
he also admited they could do (should have done) more efforts to better integrate.

that is all what i'am asking for
its not like i want to strip them from their citizenship or civil right
and i wont be saying this if that was first or second generation, but after 100 year, its about time.

really they didn't integrate? do you know how many Armenians you ran across and deal with on daily basis without realizing they are Armenians? do you know how many Lebanese/Armenian marriages there is across Lebanon?

The Armenians are very decent citizens, they are not a mob and they are not a militia, they are carrying a big part of the Lebanese economy on their shoulders, they are hard workers and we share the same set of values with them.

some of them have issues with the language, that's true; but so does saad hariri, carlos eddeh, elie skaf and the biggest majority of the so called leaders.

the Armenians in Lebanon have a culture that may seem different to you, just like the islamic culture you feel in tripoli is different from the culture you feel in kesrwen, can you say that after 500 years the sunnis in tripoli have failed to integrate?

Lebanon was the refuge of all the persecuted in the middle east across the ages; it collected people with different backgrounds, it has 18 different religions, and plenty of different cultures, they all came to Lebanon so that they can preserve their culture and freely be who they truly are, accept it and embrace it, each new culture enriches you a bit more.

it is a big shame to see this type of behavior towards the Armenians, but then again, you support a mass murderer and an ethnic cleanser, you dont know any better.

[Armenian]

To my dear e.kid and scorpion and everyone who thinks alike:

We, Armenians, came to Lebanon since the 18th century, the same way most of your ancestors came. In 1943 we were on the front line of the independence struggle, in 1975 we were the ONLY people not to enter the dirty war, we were the ONLY people not to kill our brothers and sisters, We as a party were the ONLY party that put a law that forbids people from leaving Lebanon, and guess what? Hundreds of partisans were put out of the party and till now they struggle to get back to it.

We helped Lebanon in its economy and development, we learned the Lebanese traditions and mastered them and we became Lebanese like your ancestors became.

We held the Lebanese flag high whenever some militias burned the Lebanese flag and put their party's flag instead... We have the president’s picture in ALL of our offices, party centers, cultural centers... whoever the president is... and that's to show respect to the leader of this country...

We chose not to forget our past, we chose not to forget our language, we chose not to forget our religion, we chose not to forget our culture and we created something never seen before in Lebanon...

We have the Ararad mountain of Armenia in our heart and the Lebanese Cedar in our soul...

We did it when no one was expecting us to do it...

When Armenians came to Lebanon they thought that they came for couple of months, and they will go back to Armenia in 1915... But they stayed and integrated...

We speak Arabic sometimes more than most Lebanese... We study 4 languages in school, something no one does in Lebanon...

We study Armenian history, Lebanese history and European history at school...

Our schools are the toughest and that's why you see a lot of Armenians sending their kids to non-Armenian schools...

We are something you all should be proud of and use our model to the Lebanese Diaspora all around the world...

I personally had 4 TV political talk shows in " Na7ayi" Arabic, and everyone present from different party representatives couldn't talk it...

Most of my friends are not known to be Armenians in their work environment because they mastered the language and traditions...

Some of our grand parents, who survived the Genocide, might have difficulty in speaking and I hope you understand why...

We don't need a tester for people to test us how Lebanese we are... Those testers are needed for some of the politicians now...

We fight for the Lebanese cause the same way we fought and still fight for the Armenian cause. One cannot and did not contradict the other one in any way possible...120 years of history is a proof...

So let's stop this racist talk here... Let's stop the jealousy; because we have 80% of the people trusting a party...I know you want that to your party too...

We chose to vote for this group now, and we are bad in your eyes, in the past we used to vote for people you like, so we were good and pure Lebanese... It's a shame to think this way...

Let's get out of this kind of thinking, and let's be more civilized for us to transform this beloved country to a developed one, because with your way of thinking, nothing will change...

Thank you!!

[Lebanesegirl]

Originally Posted by Armenian

To my dear e.kid and scorpion and everyone who thinks alike:

We, Armenians, came to Lebanon since the 18th century, the same way most of your ancestors came. In 1943 we were on the front line of the independence struggle, in 1975 we were the ONLY people not to enter the dirty war, we were the ONLY people not to kill our brothers and sisters, We as a party were the ONLY party that put a law that forbids people from leaving Lebanon, and guess what? Hundreds of partisans were put out of the party and till now they struggle to get back to it.

We helped Lebanon in its economy and development, we learned the Lebanese traditions and mastered them and we became Lebanese like your ancestors became.

We held the Lebanese flag high whenever some militias burned the Lebanese flag and put their party's flag instead... We have the president’s picture in ALL of our offices, party centers, cultural centers... whoever the president is... and that's to show respect to the leader of this country...

We chose not to forget our past, we chose not to forget our language, we chose not to forget our religion, we chose not to forget our culture and we created something never seen before in Lebanon...

We have the Ararad mountain of Armenia in our heart and the Lebanese Cedar in our soul...

We did it when no one was expecting us to do it...

When Armenians came to Lebanon they thought that they came for couple of months, and they will go back to Armenia in 1915... But they stayed and integrated...

We speak Arabic sometimes more than most Lebanese... We study 4 languages in school, something no one does in Lebanon...

We study Armenian history, Lebanese history and European history at school...

Our schools are the toughest and that's why you see a lot of Armenians sending their kids to non-Armenian schools...

We are something you all should be proud of and use our model to the Lebanese Diaspora all around the world...

I personally had 4 TV political talk shows in " Na7ayi" Arabic, and everyone present from different party representatives couldn't talk it...

Most of my friends are not known to be Armenians in their work environment because they mastered the language and traditions...

Some of our grand parents, who survived the Genocide, might have difficulty in speaking and I hope you understand why...

We don't need a tester for people to test us how Lebanese we are... Those testers are needed for some of the politicians now...

We fight for the Lebanese cause the same way we fought and still fight for the Armenian cause. One cannot and did not contradict the other one in any way possible...120 years of history is a proof...

So let's stop this racist talk here... Let's stop the jealousy; because we have 80% of the people trusting a party...I know you want that to your party too...

We chose to vote for this group now, and we are bad in your eyes, in the past we used to vote for people you like, so we were good and pure Lebanese... It's a shame to think this way...

Let's get out of this kind of thinking, and let's be more civilized for us to transform this beloved country to a developed one, because with your way of thinking, nothing will change...

Thank you!!

Armenian, there was no need to write this post or explain to anyone how much u are Lebanese!!! Believe me the ones judging the LEBANESE Armenians are not even 100% Lebanese!! If they think they are lebanese and all the Armenians are not laken they can shut their mouths up because they know nothing they are ignorant!!

Don't mind them!! Maybe they don't know that most of the Lebanese people and I'm one of them not 100% Lebanese!!

[cleo]

Originally Posted by hannaalsayssa

i am against such law, for a simple reason.

a good idea, will be turned around by the gangs of 14shbatt to gag us from criticizing their new khalifa and his ghelmann.
la2 balaha shabab.

but when we criticise their ghelmen we never say they can't vote unless its the way we want the vote to be.what they r doing is not just criticising.its much bigger.

[GMA forever]

Originally Posted by e.kid

Listen
AFAIK, you are in canada, so what do you consider your origin ? armenian or lebaneese ? you cant have 2 origins.

You also cant have 2 homelands, and you clearly state you consider Arminia your homeland, so why do you want me to consider you as lebaneese ?
Regardless of having lebanon interests in your mind. that does not make you lebaneese. Lebanon for you is a step on your way back to arminia


As MPolo said, a fifth generation american german is american
he does not build german schools in america, he does not follow an international german party that tries to unite germans all over the world, and he didnt give a **** about the reunification of germany
you, OTOH, after 100year, you still have an armenian party, attend mostly armenian schools, and even your political meetings are in armenian language.


That is not what i call integration

He He now you permit yourself to issue certifications in Lebanese nationality?

The Armenians are a very well integrated community in our Lebanese society and contributed immensly to our Lebanese culture, if you don't see that, then it is just because they didn't vote Zay ma hiya in the elections.

Your example of the german americans is very weak and doesn't fit here. Does your german american friend was forced to flee his land in exodus when he decided to immigrate to the US? Were his ancestors massacred and obliged to leave their homes due to the cruelty of the ottomans? Or it was his individual choice to decide to immigrate to America?

The armenians did not wish to immigrate to Lebanon, they were forced to come here. And them preserving their culture and their language is a kind of resistance against the misery that they had from the ottomans. It is a kind of refusal to be broken by one of the worst crimes in the history of the world. But who are you to understand any of that, for you everything is measured on the zay ma hiya scale!