SSNP candidates

[LebReporter]

Originally Posted by SeekNirvana

Of course not, and I'm glad you realize that SSNP is actually at odds with the Baath. I am fine with negotiations with Israel, I'm more interested in the well-being of my Nation than the ill-being of Israel.

History is not that kind to you since you didn't write it. Antoun Saade was murdered without trial. As for the 'horrors' of the war, I admit that the SSNP is responsible, but let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Seek is that realy you talking? or there are 4 guys with weapons standing near you when you post here? :P

[hhhh23]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

You used the example of SSNP being a militia during the civil war in order to justify not allying with it.

I reminded you that everybody had a militia back then...Even my Dekkanjeh...What was your point again?



You used the example of SSNP fighting along Palestinians during the civil war,as to discredit it and justify not allying with it.

I told you that others were allied to Israel...May i understand from your latest reply that there is no way on earth that you would accept that FPM ever allies Parties,or should i say,militias,like Kataeb or LF?

Or is it a bigger sin to you,to be allied to Palestinians,than to be allied to Israel?



Yes,I would like to hear a lot about that.So please feel free to elaborate,i'm all ears to you.

Yalla.I'm waiting.

And don't forget to give me explicit details and reasons,that would make you hate them more than any other militia that fought during the civil war.



I don't believe that you are,or that you will ever be, a spokesperson to FPM.

When GMA says that FPM accepted to give Murr a chance to take the right path,knowing his past,it means that FPM accepted to give Murr a chance to take the right path,knowing his past.

If you have a problem with that,go argue with GMA and ask him why is he lying.




I've never heard of a Party called FPM before 2005.

What's your point anyway?



You don't know what i know and what i don't.And i advise you not to assume much more than you could ever know,on my behalf.

Yet to get back to your point,I'll even go further than you.I'll assume that SSNP fought GMA and even wanted him dead at some time in history.And today,SSNP finds itself in the same strategic alliance with FPM,and showed signs and will of support for FPM's policies.

What exactly bothers you if the 2 sides come closer to each others?

Habibi,FPM is about openness and tolerance.It tends a hand to everyone that tends it hand to it.FPM is not about eternal hate,intolerance and isolationism.If you can't get that into your head,i wonder what you are doing with FPM's ranks.Maybe you would be more comfortable as Kataebist...Or even LFer.



Who's asking you to adopt SSNP's ideology or political line?You are free to believe whatever you like,and they are free to believe whatever they like.

As long as they abide by the law and constitution,and commit themselves to reach out their goals through democratic means,they have the right to do whatever they please,and you are required to respect their beliefs,as much,if not more, as they respect yours.

If you cannot do that,then democracy is not for you.



I think that you are of those who like to talk alot about what they ignore.



Never heard of such behavior,and i'm very well placed to know about it.Until you provide proofs,those are lies.



Everyone knows that Amal,like every other Lebanese Party, have thugs among its ranks.But never does anyone generalize about that matter,to accuse a whole supporters or members base of being thugs.

You really don't know anything about the supporters and members of Amal Party,so i advise you to check before talking next time.



Check my post in "Berri the king" thread.



Yes and....?



Examples...Facts...Anything please...Not just the usual rumors.

Anyway,check my post in the Berri thread,and you'll understand better.




I never said that you're defending any militia,but that you are diminishing the act of performing "war crimes' and "crimes against humanity" and confusing it with usual warfare acts.

That is not so innocent.



This is where you are wrong.No,some acts are not the same and are not comparable.Read my previous reply.



You're disrespecting whole parties with their supporters and their bases.You can criticize,but at some time,you have to learn to be tolerant and to respect others.



No...Not even close.Simply put:What is your point?

Not accepting that FPM allies anytime with anyone?

SSNP is indeed a party like all others, even better, they are probably the only real secular party in Lebanon. However, shouldn't Michel Aoun and his supporters (the ones with the omega flag before the creation of FPM, I dont want to say FPMers because FPM wasnt created back then) apologize from all their stances against SSNP before 2005? I mean, Aounists (because they werent FPMers back then), never missed a chance to highlight SSNP's Syrian stance and their treason to their country from 1991-2005, and I think SSNP deserves an apology before they go into an alliance with FPMers (that is those who were Aounists then became FPMers after the creation of the party, I think these are the same people).

Further, not long ago (after the creation of FPM), Aoun said on TV (I dont remember the exact TV station) that he would never ally with the killers of Bachir Gemayel (I disagreed with him back then, since Bachir is similar to all other victims). Shouldn't we at least know why he changed his mind? Besides, doesnt SSNP deserve an apology from Aoun himself on that statement?

On the other hand, SSNP had proof that Aoun was an Israeli agent from 1992-2005, hence, after they get elected, will they call for his trial, so that we can know whether or not he collaborated with Israel? Isn't that also part of the change and reform?

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by hhhh23

SSNP is indeed a party like all others, even better, they are probably the only real secular party in Lebanon. However, shouldn't Michel Aoun and his supporters (the ones with the omega flag before the creation of FPM, I dont want to say FPMers because FPM wasnt created back then) apologize from all their stances against SSNP before 2005? I mean, Aounists (because they werent FPMers back then), never missed a chance to highlight SSNP's Syrian stance and their treason to their country from 1991-2005, and I think SSNP deserves an apology before they go into an alliance with FPMers (that is those who were Aounists then became FPMers after the creation of the party, I think these are the same people).

FPMers khat orange!

FPMers are irreproachable and should hence apologize for nothing!

When I said that SSNP are not as bad as Kataeb and LF, I meant it! It doesn't mean SSNP are good people! They too killed and massacred... I just meant they didn't do as bad as the Kataeb and the LF!

Further, not long ago (after the creation of FPM), Aoun said on TV (I dont remember the exact TV station) that he would never ally with the killers of Bachir Gemayel (I disagreed with him back then, since Bachir is similar to all other victims). Shouldn't we at least know why he changed his mind? Besides, doesnt SSNP deserve an apology from Aoun himself on that statement?

I always disagreed with Aoun when he said that. However I understand such a statement being said, since many FPMers are also Bachirists...

But such a statement is now backfiring, and could be used against Aoun by saying that he is flip flopping...

I think FPM and Aoun should have paved the way for a possible SSNP-FPM alliance, by reminding people that SSNP is not worst than LF and Kataeb!

In my opinion, reminding people SSNP killed Bachir is a mistake! Bachir killed (or ordered the killing) of many people like Tony Frangieh and Dany Chamoun (the latter being replaced by his father after the threats on his life). So why focusing on SSNP while we are allied with Massoud Achkar and almost allied with Fouad Abou Nader?

On the other hand, SSNP had proof that Aoun was an Israeli agent from 1992-2005, hence, after they get elected, will they call for his trial, so that we can know whether or not he collaborated with Israel? Isn't that also part of the change and reform?

No comment...

[SeekNirvana]

Originally Posted by LebReporter

Seek is that realy you talking? or there are 4 guys with weapons standing near you when you post here? :P

I just find it ironic that some who are tolerant with the existence of parties like Kataeb, LF and HA cannot withstand the idea of having a party like SSNP.
The best ones though are those who claim moral grounds on the SSNP while they idolize Rayban warlords.

[LebReporter]

Originally Posted by SeekNirvana

I just find it ironic that some who are tolerant with the existence of parties like Kataeb, LF and HA cannot withstand the idea of having a party like SSNP.
The best ones though are those who claim moral grounds on the SSNP while they idolize Rayban warlords.

I find SSNP is a fine political party and as democratic countries if they are able to take more then 60% of parliament they are in title to do any change that they think is good as long they are supported by the people.

Not only SSNP any political party that has the support from people and represents the majority alone can do any changes they think its good. Regardless i like it or not.

But there is different between they have the majority or the opposition or the 14 march has the majority as group not as single.

Regards

[opium]

Originally Posted by shevchenco

Candidates:


Akkar: Mahmood Al-Hassan

Koura: Salim Saadah

Metn: Ghassan Askhar

Marj'youn: Assad Herdan

Baalbak-Hermel: Marwan Fares







(sorry for the screen freeze for the first 12 seconds)

Pfttt I really hate Assad Hardan !he's been our representative from decades still we never voted for him!
I won't be voting this election in Marje3yun,I prefer to help in metn or Beirut rather thn wasting my day voting for someone whom I am not convinced with.

[freemind]

Originally Posted by hhhh23

SSNP is indeed a party like all others, even better, they are probably the only real secular party in Lebanon. However, shouldn't Michel Aoun and his supporters (the ones with the omega flag before the creation of FPM, I dont want to say FPMers because FPM wasnt created back then) apologize from all their stances against SSNP before 2005? I mean, Aounists (because they werent FPMers back then), never missed a chance to highlight SSNP's Syrian stance and their treason to their country from 1991-2005, and I think SSNP deserves an apology before they go into an alliance with FPMers (that is those who were Aounists then became FPMers after the creation of the party, I think these are the same people).

Further, not long ago (after the creation of FPM), Aoun said on TV (I dont remember the exact TV station) that he would never ally with the killers of Bachir Gemayel (I disagreed with him back then, since Bachir is similar to all other victims). Shouldn't we at least know why he changed his mind? Besides, doesnt SSNP deserve an apology from Aoun himself on that statement?

On the other hand, SSNP had proof that Aoun was an Israeli agent from 1992-2005, hence, after they get elected, will they call for his trial, so that we can know whether or not he collaborated with Israel? Isn't that also part of the change and reform?

Posts like this, confirm to me that the Lebanon i want is long gone.

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that his likes and the likes of his party leaders terrorists as Asaad Herdan belong right next to where Geagea's cell was in Yarze?

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that me a GMA supporter have not forgiven Syira for any of its unhuman crimes in Lebanon, only i have tried to forget those crimes for the sake of progression and the building of a better future? but have never forgiven, even if GMA has.

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell this SSNPist that as a Christian i had to collaborate with the Israeli zionists at a point during wartime for the sake of my free Lebanon that he didn't believe in?

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that i did collborate with American conservative politicians outloud during 1990-2005, to save my country from the likes of his occupier ally armies such as the Syrians?

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell this SSNPists that Bashir Gmayyel's boot is worth any ideology his party represents?

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that i'd have a retake at the 1989 Liberation war if i had to without any hesitation?

Whether for election purposes or for the country's stability sake, let it be known i'd never refrain from sayin the above to the SSNPist at any time.

regards,

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by freemind

Posts like this, confirm to me that the Lebanon i want is long gone.

The ideas and words expressed by the members of this forum do not represent the ideas and positions of FPM or any other party for that matter... I heard much worst and do not stop at every negative post out there!

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that his likes and the likes of his party leaders terrorists as Asaad Herdan belong right next to where Geagea's cell was in Yarze?

No

I don't know what he did, but if he massacred as much as Geagea and Gemayel, then I won't bash you for this!

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that me a GMA supporter have not forgiven Syira for any of its unhuman crimes in Lebanon, only i have tried to forget those crimes for the sake of progression and the building of a better future? but have never forgiven, even if GMA has.

No

But I don't think that it is GMA's intention to forget everything that happened. If you listen to GMA's speeches, they still represent what the majority of the people want: independence, fight against corruption, end of civil conflict, rule of law, justice, etc.

But none of this is possible if we remain enemies to our two only neighbors... If politicians can afford to have Syria as their enemy, the people can't!

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell this SSNPist that as a Christian i had to collaborate with the Israeli zionists at a point during wartime for the sake of my free Lebanon that he didn't believe in?

It is all relative...

Many people allied for the wrong reasons... Many LFers allied with the Zionists not only to defend themselves, but for more selfish reasons... Kataeb are not less guilty of the war than the other sides! Believing that is backwards and egocentric!

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that i did collborate with American conservative politicians outloud during 1990-2005, to save my country from the likes of his occupier ally armies such as the Syrians?

No

But we will bash you if you became a puppet of the American conservative (and less conservative), and played by its rule and applied its policies disregarding the interests of Lebanon and its citizens...

While Aoun and FPM did negotiate (collaborate means we did something wrong) with the Americans to gain our independence, we knew our history and our limits: we remember that it is the American green light that allowed Syrian occupation, and we said no to the Americans when they wanted to impose their will on Lebanon and make Lebanon Syria's enemy!

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell this SSNPists that Bashir Gmayyel's boot is worth any ideology his party represents?

Bachir Gemayel's and SSNP ideology are both not worth FPM and Aoun ideology! Both have their wrong, both have their good... But I believe FPM's ideology is the only realistic and human one!

Will any FPMer bash me if i tell the SSNPist that i'd have a retake at the 1989 Liberation war if i had to without any hesitation?

No

But let's not always look at the past, and start thinking about our future! That doesn't mean we have to forget the past, but it means that we don't have to "remake" the war. We can achieve our goals freely through democracy and the rule of law... If we allow FPM to rule!

Whether for election purposes or for the country's stability sake, let it be known i'd never refrain from sayin the above to the SSNPist at any time.

regards,

I respect your views very much... Unfortunately, if FPM was alone, we'd lose the elections in all regions! However, we can take many MP seats and hopefully the majority, and try to make a difference in the next 4 years, so that by next elections, Lebanon could be more democratic, more transparent, less corrupt, more accountable, etc.

So please, vote FPM, no matter who its allies are!

[KingNothing]

Originally Posted by SeekNirvana

Of course not, and I'm glad you realize that SSNP is actually at odds with the Baath. I am fine with negotiations with Israel, I'm more interested in the well-being of my Nation than the ill-being of Israel.

History is not that kind to you since you didn't write it. Antoun Saade was murdered without trial. As for the 'horrors' of the war, I admit that the SSNP is responsible, but let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

I agree that Saadeh was murdered and I bet that many injustices were perpetrated against the SSNP. In principle, I really don't have much against your ideology and your view of the history of the region is not too far from mine. However, to go back to the original argument, the problem was with some candidates that I deem corrupt and with too much blood on their hands. Notably hardane (blood and corruption) and Fares(corruption).

Change has to start somewhere and even that we both agree that everybody commited horrors in the war, I truly believe that there are no guarantees that those horrors won't be commited again, especially that those who ordered them will be our future representatives .

[superduper703]

SSNP were, are and will always be the enemy of the STATE OF LEBANON. If you love your Lebanon, 10452 km2 of it, you will say tfouh. I don't care much for their arguments, excuses or explanations. They are traitors.

Live with your conscience. Peace out.