To some Fpmers or allies:WHy don't you love Gebran bassil?

[LEBANESE-CIA]

Originally Posted by nuclearcat

Sorry, not interested in them and politics at all. What GB did in industry where i work, make me hate him and FPM. Before i was sympathizing FPM.
FPM lost because his aggressive actions made more enemies, than friends, and this enemies go to elections, just to make FPM loose.
Many ex-FPM'ers i know frustrated about FPM, after GB also made Aoun to to break his word. Aoun start to support feudalism, and pushing looser (in elections) to ministerial position.

Maybe he closed some illegal activities you were involved with directly or indirectly that is why you hate him. Hate him as u like, he DID WORK and still trying to improve his ministery, and those who are frustrated from HIM can't see beyound their nose.
FPM didnt loose it was 21 last time now its 27 + TVA jakara bel 14makhlouta!
FYI he will hold a ministerial position , in spite of whoever oppose it.
And if you are not intrested "in them and politics at all" why are you contradicting yourself here with G.bassil : )
double standard like ja3ja3 and hariristan. !

[nuclearcat]

Originally Posted by LEBANESE-CIA

Maybe he closed some illegal activities you were involved with directly or indirectly that is why you hate him. Hate him as u like, he DID WORK and still trying to improve his ministery, and those who are frustrated from HIM can't see beyound their nose.

In Lebanon many things illegal. Because Lebanon lacks proper lawmakers.
First - You can revoke all driver licenses in Lebanon, i guess less than percent of drivers here follow law, all others is illegal. Many of them don't know driving laws at all. Put all of them in jail, punish, slay them, stone them. Crowd will like. Result is zero. People will drive, to live and work.

Second way - You can make coverage in media, make government funded driving lessons, put proper signs on road, make social adversiting why driving right way is important.

First is easy and will make picture of such minister is HERO for dumb crowd who is not hurt in this show.
Second way is difficult, takes time, less impressive, but make great results.

I hope now you will understand analogy.

FPM didnt loose it was 21 last time now its 27 + TVA jakara bel 14makhlouta!
FYI he will hold a ministerial position , in spite of whoever oppose it.

Summary of the 7 June 2009 Lebanese Parliament election results
Free Patriotic Movement (Tayyar Al-Watani Al-Horr) 18

2005
Free Patriotic Movement (Tayyar Al-Watani Al-Horr) 15
Source:
Lebanese Parliamentary Monitor ::// and wikipedia
Technically talking yes, it is small improvement. Tactically, FPM lost.
Why? I will try to explain very short way.
As some people say here, he is possible new leader of FPM.
He say on TV his pockets empty, bank account is negative, he lost elections.
Saddam Hussein was looking better at 1998 :-) (one more wrong choice)
Where party will go with such leader?

And if you are not intrested "in them and politics at all" why are you contradicting yourself here with G.bassil : )
double standard like ja3ja3 and hariristan. !

I am not political addict, to know which underwear each politic have today. But definitely i don't like someone who almost screwed whole industry in Lebanon.

[Mar1K]

Originally Posted by nuclearcat

1)He cuts straight from the shoulder too much. Too much hasty decisions, it is good for revolution, but bad for country in long term. Extremely bad for country while there is crisis in world and situation is very risky. He must be cool, cautious person, cause already there is too much aggressive people in government pushing people to war, civil or international, and firing hatred and sectarianism in country.

hasty decisions? please elaborate

2)He buy his supporters cheap way. Just drop few bucks from their bills and they will love him. Make some unrealistic plans and some people not very advanced in this areas will say "WOW, he is my heroooo, he is doing great job, this is why they dont want him as telecom minister". Such people make me sick.

and I guess you are said you did not get your cut? If you have not noticed, Lebanon had the most expensive telecom network in the world, bringing the prices down a bit was the reasonable thing to do...

3)His technical decisions is horribly wrong.
3A)FTTH in Hamra extremely expensive, and FTTH is "last resort" project that is needed in this country. It is final stage of improvement.
3B)Clear lie about 20x times faster internet in 1 month before elections, extremely cheap way to get PR. I am sure he knew it won't happen.
3C)Cutting "illegal" internet connections for PR, and didn't fix "legal" ones before for good. Destroying before building is VERY bad habit.
3D)Not well tested motorola 2.75G (EDGE) implementation, have issues with polling. Now Lebanese GSM customers is testbed of this beta-solution.
3E)When he is counting internet bandwidth in E1's, not in megabits, it shows his technical level is absolute zero. Even kids know, that bandwidth counted in megabits now. And if he want to talk about voice capabity, it is explained how much lines. Probably after 1 year sitting in chair of minister, he should know this, or at least his advisors should tell him.

1- do you expect to bring call centers and business opportunities without having a proper infrastructure?

2- i like the last one most, so it's wrong to count how many E1 links do you have? Where's the problem if you say my bandwidth is x number of E1? multiply X by 2.048 Mbits if you want to be a smart techy and you get your answer, if you can not perform such task, please refrain from bashing on the "Minister of telecom" as he is a bit beyound your league.

3-Does the ministry test the EDGE compatibility or should service providers do that?

I guess your sad cause your bandwidth got cut down cause of the Barouk station lol.

4)He have his own business, and saying his pockets is empty on TV.Can anybody say he is good businessman? How he will rule country? Or he doesn't say truth or. For me personally very important, how successful person in business, before it comes to government power.
P.S. He have his own company, relatively big: AAMAR ENGINEERING & CONSTRUCTION CO. SARL, at least shipment this company did to USA is big.

So for you, a person has to be corrupt and full of cash to be a minister? So the people can not actually rule themselves, they have to be governed by the people that actually take their daily bread? So in other words, a Telecom giants should appoint the minister of telecommunication and then that minister will definitely work for the benefit of the country not the benefit of who appointed him...

This is a typical hariri logic.

5)Yes, he is relative of Aoun and if you publicly declare war with feudalism, you declare your relatives as victims of this war. Reputation of all politicians in party should be crystal clear. And in FPM many relatives of Aoun take key positions, not only GB.

So if he is a relative to Aoun and successfull, he can not run as a minister, find me 1, and i repeat, only 1 more successful minister in that ministry specifically and I will ready to denounce everything i believe in.

6)He lost elections in his own home city. That's say a lot. I see worst politicians winning elections, just because they run them in their home city.

i thought your not into politics?

7)He didn't make market clearer and more healthy. He supports big operators, and Ogero monopoly and doing only good things for them.

and of course your suggesting to privatize the telecom industry?

7)Overview of market, not only my ISP, whole telecommunication, all of them, say clear - huge degradation in service, while all world have big improvement. With previous minister there was very slow, but improvement, now we are stepping back.
SMS not coming anymore from many countries to Alfa number(europe), operators outside blaming Lebanese operators. It is almost impossible to call from outside - Lebanon, for example someone calling from outside over Skype. ISP prices indirectly jumped up (Fair usage, limitations on "night unlimited"), and no new services. Internet from Ogero become very unstable, a lot of outages recently. Ogero is installing DPI engine, and blocking protocols, which is first step to take freedom of Lebanese users. Same DPI engine can be used by next minister (it can be anti-FPM) to watch each user activity.

you have used the bullet 7 before, now your using it again, does this indicate how clever you are to criticize the minister of telecom? the most successfull minister of telecom?

As for the service, weird, only valentinos are facing those issue... I run a small business in Lebanon, i make 1 to 2 calls a day and never had an issue. I wonder why... I guess GB has actually filtered all GSM numbers and classified them by 8 and 14, then intentionally degraded the service for the valentinos haha

Conclusion: FAIL

Conclusion: You are more biased then the valentinos, you use that very small limited amount of knowledge you have to search for technical terms and attack on Gebran. If i were you, I would invest more time improving my english skills and basic networking skills (a CCNA would be good for u).

[tae]

Originally Posted by OrangeEddy

Well, difficult one... Let's see...

1. GB is GMA's son in law.... Regardless of his personal value (which I am not questioning), just the fact that he is GMA's son in law should be a reason not to play a prominent role in FPM's politics, since FPM is against political feodalism.... He can very well be very effective behind the scenes, without offering to critics this easy target of : walawww, FPM is against feodalism, and see GB is in the government... (Same applies to Alain Aoun, btw)

2. GB needs to work on his communication skills, especially in front of the camera... It might only be a few minor things, touch-ups on rhetorics, gestures, etc... will definitely procure him this charisma that he lacks....

[Yalla, i know i will get bashed....]

what you said above would have been more acceptable if the reason why we are insisting on him is his relation to GMA.
The achievements that he did over the last couple of years make the issue of being the son in law of GMA something silly if considered a reason for refusing him.
As for the charisma, I don't think it is important, I care much more about the reforms that he was able to do.
Our experience with him was excellent as a minister, why replace him and bring someone who we know nothing about his abilities in this position.
FM and co have strong reasons for refusing him, but the reasons that you are giving here are silly in my opinion.
Lets be practical, we're building a country... shou charisma w osas ghareebeh.

[Mar1K]

هذه اسئلة لكل مناصري التيار الوطني الحر و الحلفاء:

١- سمي وزير نجح في وزارة الإتصالات أكثر من جبران باسيل منذ إنشاء هذه الوزارة

٢- سمي خمس وزراء نجحوا أكثر من جبران باسيل في وزارتهم بغض النظر عن الوزارة منذ دولة لبنان الكبير

[LEBANESE-CIA]

Originally Posted by nuclearcat

In Lebanon many things illegal. Because Lebanon lacks proper lawmakers.
First - You can revoke all driver licenses in Lebanon, i guess less than percent of drivers here follow law, all others is illegal. Many of them don't know driving laws at all. Put all of them in jail, punish, slay them, stone them. Crowd will like. Result is zero. People will drive, to live and work.

Second way - You can make coverage in media, make government funded driving lessons, put proper signs on road, make social adversiting why driving right way is important.

First is easy and will make picture of such minister is HERO for dumb crowd who is not hurt in this show.
Second way is difficult, takes time, less impressive, but make great results.

I hope now you will understand analogy.


Summary of the 7 June 2009 Lebanese Parliament election results
Free Patriotic Movement (Tayyar Al-Watani Al-Horr) 18

2005
Free Patriotic Movement (Tayyar Al-Watani Al-Horr) 15
Source:
Lebanese Parliamentary Monitor ::// and wikipedia
Technically talking yes, it is small improvement. Tactically, FPM lost.
Why? I will try to explain very short way.
As some people say here, he is possible new leader of FPM.
He say on TV his pockets empty, bank account is negative, he lost elections.
Saddam Hussein was looking better at 1998 :-) (one more wrong choice)
Where party will go with such leader?


I am not political addict, to know which underwear each politic have today. But definitely i don't like someone who almost screwed whole industry in Lebanon.

sorry your analogy is irrelevent, like comparing apple to bateikh.
try to be subjective when giving analogy.
and wikipedia as source is just make me laugh. anyone can post and edit on wikipedia sho hal source heidi : )
and tacticaly how we "lost" from 21 to 27 with the whole world against us : )

[The Jade]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

To be honest Iceberg, the problem is that when you're an FPM supporter or even a member, you don't really know what's happening "behind the scene".

While what you're saying might be very serious, and while you might have a point, we don't know exactly what's going on which makes it hard - for me and others - to take a position.

Moreover, I understand The Jade question which seems relevant. Well, at least for me. Why Gebran Bassil and not Sehnaoui or Abs etc.

But still, we don't know the real reason, we don't know the real facts so it's hard to form any valid and balanced position.

That's why I and many others can only judge that Bassil, given his experience as minister, deserves to be praised and not bashed. And that we need to know why he failed in Batroun to form a definitive opinion on what should be his place in FPM.

That FPM must be organized and elections held seems obvious though.

Here's a big black point in FPM's way of acting.

Why doesn't anyone question anything the party does ?

More importantly, how come the party doesn't explain itself when it takes any decision ?

Or even better, how come the party doesn't consult enough with its members about decisions they're willing to take ?

If there are any reasons why Gebran was chosen instead of the others, let the FPM come forth with it.

But the blindness of many FPM members in Aoun's decisions, makes the party sick.
The second Aoun is gone, who will these people turn to ?
They'll become like the Bachirists.....Still wishing Bachir was alive, still hoping he comes back to life and the best part: Still thinking that no christian leader will ever come to earth and be a fraction as important, smart, charismatic etc etc as Bachir....


Now for the people saying that Bassil is a good minister.....Yes he's even an excellent minister.

But would Abs, Sehnaoui and Kanj be less good than Gebran ?
Don't you think that the whole Gebran issue hurt the FPM more than it helped it ? (From the perception of others who believed that the FPM stuck to its principles and that it's fighting feudalism)

[baloo]

Talking about "Charisma" . Can you define what does it mean in Lebanon?

I find that GB has done a very good job as telecom minister and still trying to fight corruption . I like when I see him pointing out on TV at what is going wrong on other ministries or khazmatjiye bel dawle and sue them ( as any democratic and free country in the world).

snob? lol ...In lebanon, they dont even know what snob is ...all what they try to do is show off ( 3a mashi kamen) and people says oh he is snob ...lol
most of Lebanese people living in lebanon are "superficial" and those are the one who critisize the most ! I hope one day they will get a real life and mind their own business.

Thumb up for Gebran Bassil

[baloo]

[quote=The Jade;1034212]Here's a big black point in FPM's way of acting.

Why doesn't anyone question anything the party does ?

More importantly, how come the party doesn't explain itself when it takes any decision ?


I agree , why they dont sent us SMS or e-mails , or even Fax telling us what they are doing in their meetings and what decision did they take on each and every single matter in the party ? sho barghash ne7na ?

[The Jade]

Originally Posted by baloo

I agree , why they dont sent us SMS or e-mails , or even Fax telling us what they are doing in their meetings and what decision did they take on each and every single matter in the party ? sho barghash ne7na ?

Dude, this whole issue comes from something really basic.

When the leaders act while disregarding their member's positions, this means that there's no accountability.

When the members can't even have a word in the party's political line and major decision, this is called totalitarianism.

There is something called a general assembly (which is always always always the highest instance in a party that respects itself) This body is the one who chooses the big lines the party should follow.

This body also elects the leaders of the party.... This means that these leaders are the base's choice, that makes them accountable to them.

And more importantly the choices these leaders will take would reflect the decisions of this body (still following ??)

All in all, this is to tell you that since there's no accountability and since a lot of FPMers have a blind trust in Michel Aoun, then party is doomed to failure