The so called 3orf of not appointing election losers as ministers

[Joumana Gebara]

Amine Gemayel lost in the by-elections of 2007 and did not resign from being head of party nor did anyone stop calling him fakhemet el ra2iss

Gibran Bassil won 3rd place in the elections of 2008, so he has the bronze medal which qualifies him to run as minister, this is beside his great job as a minister. My defense toward Bassil is purely based on the fact that Bassil did a really great job as a minister, of course, with the help of his qualified team, but this proves leadership qualification and office expertise.

If I were FPM representative, I would simply stop defending Bassil and hammer on other more important things because now the whole situation looks in favor of Hariri's clan (and this because FPM is always reacting with defense of Bassil).

FPM won lot more sympathy in the aftermath of 2005 and the Christians' rights. Although I am against secterianism and pro-secularism, I would advocate that Christian Rights are again the decisive media factor which would reposition FPM in the better angle. FPM has the majority of the Christian voices and politics in the media should be tackled again based on this fact with a massive campaign as in 2005. I am sure everyone will foget Bassil, 3erf etc and the counterpart will panik, which may lead at the end to appointing Bassil with one thought in Harirists camp: "عل عون يرئف عليهم ويوقف حملته"

[ecce homo]

The Metn by-elections in 2007 are an excellent example. They were used by the majority and the US as a barometer for the presidency (David Welsh). Had Gemayel won, the majority would have pushed to have him as president since he had the popular majority (even if it was only Metn, their rule). But since he lost to an unknown person they changed again the rules they set for those elections and came up with a new rule consensual president. Any rule is good as long it keeps GMA away from the presidency.

[LebSpy]

Originally Posted by jamez29

lol i wonder if the short memory loss and the blindness added to your brainwashing made you ignore the truth
no one ever in lebanon talked about losers except GMA he started this campaign and you clapped for him and at that time he was right because it fits you now all of you are complaining
again ma fi fa2ous w5iar honi
you started this compaign you must live with it

Even though this has been repeated 100 times (or even more)...

What if Bassil was running in another district? Let's say Matn or Kserwen!
Bassil is part of a political party which has the 2nd largest bloc in the parliament and comparing his case to Nasib Lahoud is wrong! N. Lahoud is the head of his own party and how many MPs does his party have?

[Shuyu3i]

what is this world coming to when Gebran a successful minister is being complared to nassib who? his last name says it all!!!

[hhhh23]

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

Event: A few days ago, a number of FM MPs started a new media chorus claiming that it has always been a 3orf not to reward losers in parliamentary elections as ministers.

Facts: I will not go back to the days of the syrian era since elections back then were any sort but democratic, so I will stick with the post 2005 era.
* Fact 1: Nassib Lahoud, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.
* Fact 2: Gebran Bassil, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.
* Fact 3: Mario Aoun, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.


So, when was this "3orf" established, and how come no one even heard about it till now? What's more ironical about it is that the current government is full of ministers who lost in elections, yet not a single voice reminded us of this "3orf" until the formation of the new government. And still some wise guys (in the name of Fatfat for instance) claim that this "3orf" has never been broken. He must have come up with a new definition of "never".
The sad part is that a lot of our citizens will fall for it and chant it as a holy truth disregarding any touch with reality (>>> the current gov of Siniora having already broken this so called 3orf with so much of a peep about the matter).

First, I want to stress that I think this story of losers cannot be ministers is ridiculous.

But, to make the statements of FM guys precise, they usually claim that no losers can be appointed as ministers in the FIRST government after the elections (right after the elections). The government of Bassil, Lahoud and Mario Aoun is the 2nd after the elections.

To make this thread complete I am sure you can find 10 ministers in the first government who were losers in the elections.

[Resistancefrom89]

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

This is the stupidest 3erf i have ever heard. So what if someone loses in general elections. Bassil wasn't voted OUT... he got a LOT of votes, but got less than someone else. This doesn't mean he is a thief or a loser or he's not fit for the job!! We hardly see ministers who are qualified to run their ministries, is "popularity" the criteria to become a minister? or the technical qualifications?
What about those who didn't run in the elections. Murr hardly made it and his win is being contested, who said his son Elias would've won if he had run? Who said any of the non-MPs would've won if they run? This is ridiculous, this country is becoming more complicated by the day...

Can not agree more. this a 3erf "a la libanaise", do no know how to qualify it but childish.

On another note, yesterday was the German parlamentary election and a lot of losers reentered the parlamanet without being voted and though they were losers.

To explain: German parlamentary election is made of 2 parts:
1st part: direct election (like lebanon) that result in selecting 50% on the parlament, the other 50% are completed in the second part
2nd part: based on what each party have achieved in terms of percentages, e.g. if party x got 40% of the total popular vote, than candidates are taken from the List that Party X have set in order to complement the candidate selected in the 1st part to get to 40% pf total number of seats. So it could be that a candidate who lost by the direct vote in the 1st part (let's say in Batroun), reenter the parlament in the 2nd part as his name is chosen from the list to complement the candidate of party X to rach 40%.

That's German democracy. But of course we the Lebanese are most advanced than the Germans and Tayyar el Mustaqbal and Hariri knows it better (of course he was educated in the Saudi democratic system)

[TayyaRevolution]

I am still waiting to hear a legal and/or constitutional reference for their argument.

Otherwise, by bringing this point up, they are in fact THEMSELVES blocking formation of government.

[elias-aj]

So far, the most valid customary constitutional law in Lebanon is "not appointing competent people". Lebanese don't want to move forward and they don't want to have people appointed as ministers working. They usually despise them as they don't fit with the principle of "shattara".

As for the current constitution, this piece of ****** in itself shall not be considered as a constitution because it was imposed on us by those who collaborated with the foreign forces occupying our country. In my opinion, Lebanon has no constitution and since 2005 we're under some kind of modus vivendi or, if some prefer, a pot-pourri that might be considered as some kind of set of rules.

Pity the nation that rejected the IIIrd Republic project.

[LubnanALkawi]

FPM should still call for Ministry of communications to prove their point and i understand FPM on this point!

but wanting Gibran Bassil so badly!
is it only bassil who can do the job? you dont have anyone else in FPM but bassil?

lets take Alain Aoun for example he have been in this business for a long time and him being in that ministry would be perfect!

so FPM should ask for Alain Aoun as Ministry of communications... which means pressure on Hariri and shows if the problem is Bassil or giving this Ministry of communications to FPM!

[TayyaRevolution]

Originally Posted by LubnanALkawi

FPM should still call for Ministry of communications to prove their point and i understand FPM on this point!

but wanting Gibran Bassil so badly!
is it only bassil who can do the job? you dont have anyone else in FPM but bassil?

lets take Alain Aoun for example he have been in this business for a long time and him being in that ministry would be perfect!

so FPM should ask for Alain Aoun as Ministry of communications... which means pressure on Hariri and shows if the problem is Bassil or giving this Ministry of communications to FPM!

For the last time, it is not about GEBRAN BASSIL as a person!! There are many within FPM that can do the same job.

When the Opposition was still negotating on a cabinet formula, Gebran's name was brought up by the majority, and the campaign against him was launched.

Now the Opposition stood in defence of Gebran for a few reasons.

1. We stood up for the right to name our OWN ministers, and no one can veto, impose or name our ministers. This is our right, and our internal business.

2. And we highlighted WHY (ministerial achievements) they launched the campaign against him.

So for both reasons, we stood firm and did not flinch.