advanced search
Contact Us tayyar.org
 
The Orange Room - forum.tayyar.org
 



Notices
The Orange Room Discuss anything related to Lebanon, Lebanese Politics, Breaking News and Live Updates on Major Events related to Lebanon & the World

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
vegojimbo's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 9,718
Thanks: 68
Thanked 580 Times in 394 Posts
Last Online: 3 Hours Ago
Join Date: Wed May 2006
View vegojimbo's Photo Album
Default The so called 3orf of not appointing election losers as ministers - 27th September 2009

Event: A few days ago, a number of FM MPs started a new media chorus claiming that it has always been a 3orf not to reward losers in parliamentary elections as ministers.

Facts: I will not go back to the days of the syrian era since elections back then were any sort but democratic, so I will stick with the post 2005 era.
* Fact 1: Nassib Lahoud, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.
* Fact 2: Gebran Bassil, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.
* Fact 3: Mario Aoun, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.


So, when was this "3orf" established, and how come no one even heard about it till now? What's more ironical about it is that the current government is full of ministers who lost in elections, yet not a single voice reminded us of this "3orf" until the formation of the new government. And still some wise guys (in the name of Fatfat for instance) claim that this "3orf" has never been broken. He must have come up with a new definition of "never".
The sad part is that a lot of our citizens will fall for it and chant it as a holy truth disregarding any touch with reality (>>> the current gov of Siniora having already broken this so called 3orf with so much of a peep about the matter).
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
OrangeEddy's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 272
Thanks: 9
Thanked 24 Times in 13 Posts
Last Online: 56 Minutes Ago
Join Date: Sun Jan 2006
View OrangeEddy's Photo Album
Default 27th September 2009

Vego, you can also add Mir Talal Arslan who was appointed minister, while having lost the 2005 elections.
Also, Gl Issam Abou Jamra, who lost in 2005 (he was running in marje3youn)
Reply With Quote
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Tayyar Keserwen's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 3,598
Thanks: 970
Thanked 1,533 Times in 891 Posts
Last Online: 8 Hours Ago
Join Date: Tue May 2007
View Tayyar Keserwen's Photo Album
Default 27th September 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeEddy View Post
Vego, you can also add Mir Talal Arslan who was appointed minister, while having lost the 2005 elections.
Also, Gl Issam Abou Jamra, who lost in 2005 (he was running in marje3youn)
General Issam Abou Jamra did not run anywhere in 2005.
Reply With Quote
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
joe tayyar's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 1,334
Thanks: 175
Thanked 220 Times in 155 Posts
Last Online: 1 Minute Ago
Join Date: Mon May 2008
View joe tayyar's Photo Album
Default 27th September 2009

They want to do it a 3eref on our turn.

Ma moudawara shoo bikoun.
Reply With Quote
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
Orange Room Supporter
 
loubnaniTO's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 5,268
Thanks: 392
Thanked 669 Times in 289 Posts
Last Online: 1 Hour Ago
Join Date: Sun Sep 2004
View loubnaniTO's Photo Album
Default 28th September 2009

This is the stupidest 3erf i have ever heard. So what if someone loses in general elections. Bassil wasn't voted OUT... he got a LOT of votes, but got less than someone else. This doesn't mean he is a thief or a loser or he's not fit for the job!! We hardly see ministers who are qualified to run their ministries, is "popularity" the criteria to become a minister? or the technical qualifications?
What about those who didn't run in the elections. Murr hardly made it and his win is being contested, who said his son Elias would've won if he had run? Who said any of the non-MPs would've won if they run? This is ridiculous, this country is becoming more complicated by the day...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to loubnaniTO For This Useful Post:
Tayyar Keserwen (28th September 2009)
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Abotareq93's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 1,015
Thanks: 460
Thanked 248 Times in 182 Posts
Last Online: 1 Hour Ago
Join Date: Wed Mar 2009
View Abotareq93's Photo Album
Default 28th September 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegojimbo View Post
Event: A few days ago, a number of FM MPs started a new media chorus claiming that it has always been a 3orf not to reward losers in parliamentary elections as ministers.

Facts: I will not go back to the days of the syrian era since elections back then were any sort but democratic, so I will stick with the post 2005 era.
* Fact 1: Nassib Lahoud, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.
* Fact 2: Gebran Bassil, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.
* Fact 3: Mario Aoun, a losing candidate in 2005 elections was appointed minister in 2008.



So, when was this "3orf" established, and how come no one even heard about it till now? What's more ironical about it is that the current government is full of ministers who lost in elections, yet not a single voice reminded us of this "3orf" until the formation of the new government. And still some wise guys (in the name of Fatfat for instance) claim that this "3orf" has never been broken. He must have come up with a new definition of "never".
The sad part is that a lot of our citizens will fall for it and chant it as a holy truth disregarding any touch with reality (>>> the current gov of Siniora having already broken this so called 3orf with so much of a peep about the matter).
Elie Marouni lost in 2005 and he was appointed minister in 2008
Reply With Quote
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
Orange Room Moderator
 
GMA forever's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 4,775
Thanks: 814
Thanked 817 Times in 502 Posts
Last Online: 3 Hours Ago
Join Date: Mon Sep 2004
View GMA forever's Photo Album
Default 28th September 2009

The parliament's role, taken from the constitution that probably those future MPs didn't read it, is to observe and controle the ministers' work in their ministries and as a group.

Now will those genius FM MP's explain to us, how will that be possible, if only the MP's are allowed to become ministers???
Reply With Quote
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
vegojimbo's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 9,718
Thanks: 68
Thanked 580 Times in 394 Posts
Last Online: 3 Hours Ago
Join Date: Wed May 2006
View vegojimbo's Photo Album
Default 28th September 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by loubnaniTO View Post
This is the stupidest 3erf i have ever heard. So what if someone loses in general elections. Bassil wasn't voted OUT... he got a LOT of votes, but got less than someone else. This doesn't mean he is a thief or a loser or he's not fit for the job!! We hardly see ministers who are qualified to run their ministries, is "popularity" the criteria to become a minister? or the technical qualifications?
What about those who didn't run in the elections. Murr hardly made it and his win is being contested, who said his son Elias would've won if he had run? Who said any of the non-MPs would've won if they run? This is ridiculous, this country is becoming more complicated by the day...
I didn't want to tackle it from this angle, my aim was merely to pinpoint how ludicrous have some politicians turned.
However, I will state that being appointed as minister has nothing to do with popularity. A minister can even lose in his hometown and still be the most competent in the entire cabinet. The minister is supposed to represent a certain side and not himself, so whether he is more famous than Elvis Presley or a mere nobody it really means squat. The identity of the minister should not come into question when popularity enters the equation. when it does, we talk about the representation of the side which advocates this minister to hold a certain portfolio. The name of the candidate should lie solely in the hands of the side which nominated him. For instance, in Lebanon, currently FPM demands 5 ministers. No one has the right to put conditions on any name presented by this faction as long as the party is respecting its 5 men representation.
Now, globally, can someone give me one example of a minister in any government where he represents himself and not the side he/she represents? if you're not able to find one, what gives you then the right to judge the appointment of the individual based on elections? And since when was a minister supposed to represent the people's will? He (as an individual) is supposed to serve them, but not be the actual manifestation of their will. For example, the employee at the department of Vehicles (el nef3a in plain lebanese) is supposed to serve you, but not necessarily be the embodiment of the people's political line. In the West, no one dares criticize the appointment of any minister based on his popularity or whether he/she lost in elections or not. The criticism comes from one angle and one angle only, and it is competence in the appointed position and whether the person is fit for the task at hand or not. Anything other than that is dismissed right away. If we Lebanese look up to the West like we boast to, then we must also judge the appointment of the ministers based on this criterion. If that's the case, then there's no one more deserving of returning as minister than Bassil (just giving an example t prove a point...so plz don't turn the thread about him) since his ministry proved to be the best functioning out of all.


PS: Sorry for the linguistic mistakes in the opening post, I wrote it in a hurry.
Reply With Quote
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
Orange Room Supporter
 
Diabolo_7's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 7,247
Blog Entries: 12
Thanks: 313
Thanked 872 Times in 508 Posts
Last Online: 25 Minutes Ago
Join Date: Fri Jul 2005
View Diabolo_7's Photo Album
Default 28th September 2009

you forgot elie marouni
Reply With Quote
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
vegojimbo's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 9,718
Thanks: 68
Thanked 580 Times in 394 Posts
Last Online: 3 Hours Ago
Join Date: Wed May 2006
View vegojimbo's Photo Album
Default 28th September 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeEddy View Post
Vego, you can also add Mir Talal Arslan who was appointed minister, while having lost the 2005 elections.
Also, Gl Issam Abou Jamra, who lost in 2005 (he was running in marje3youn)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diabolo_7 View Post
you forgot elie marouni
I forgot about those 2.
So we have 5 current ministers who already lost in elections: Mario Aoun, Gebran Bassil, Nassib Lahoud, Elie Marouni, Talal Erslan.

So much for this 3orf.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Orange Room - forum.tayyar.org The Orange Room Main Forums The Orange Room

Tags
3orf, appointing, called, election, losers, ministers


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

Forums Directory