SHIA REPRESENTATION IN LEBANON

[LebArmenian]

in a real democracy , i will say that yes the shiites are under represented ( since they are the biggest community , oh and even if some are talking about the immigrants , if you add the shiite immigrants again they will be the largest one ) but in Lebanon , we have sectarian version of democracy , and based on that they are well represented ( 45% of muslims i think ? ) .

[Bejin]

13 october 1990

Saying they want to stop the war and they are the legality, Rafi Hariri, Walid Joumblatt and Samir Geagea supported by the US and Saudi Arabia, used Syria to overthrow “illegal” Michel Aoun, to take the power and to impose to the christians their diktat throught Taef



What did it happen? The worst fights, the Syrian invasion and the Syrian occupation



2006

Saying they want to do a new 14 march against Syria and they are the legality, Saad Hariri, Walid Joumblatt, Samir Geagea, Gemayel family, Chamoun family supported by the US and Saudi Arabia, want to demonstrate to overthrow “illegal” Emile Lahoud, to take the power and to impose their diktat to the christians and the shiits throught Taef



What will it happen? We will stand against them

[vicking]

Originally Posted by AlGhaliboon

why would we have federalism, when we believe in democratically deciding the fate of the people? democratic meaning the absolute majority and not just some arbitrary number like 51% . what gives you any right to hold the majority of Lebanon's population hostage if you are more inclined to emigration, or are less inclined to have larger families? so if the percentage of Christians living in Lebanon in 100 years becomes 10%, the 90% will be asked to give up on their democratic right to try to change the system (not saying it would succeed to begin with)???? what kind of logic is that, it's not even democratic. so spare us the talk about democracy that so many people like you refer to when criticizing our "intentions" and "hidden agendas".


We are the majority PERIOD (yes that means the Shi3a alone are more than the Christians, and more than the Sunnis and Christians combined). No either, if , and, or but. If you don't believe it, let us hold a census, rather than fool each other with so-called statistics in trash "news"papers like annahar.

Afraid? That is not my problem.

NO it is wrong, acording to MANY sources (le figaro, newsweek, bbc, etc.) Christian are about 40% of the population, so syaing that Shiaa are the absolute majority is totally wrong.

As for the democracy, YES for democracy.. but wait a sec :
WE as Chrsitian would ask for federal system in order to secure or existence in OUR regions, noty ALL Lebanon.

If you have a part of a nation (40%) asking for federalism, why woulmd you be against it ? You would be against it if your hidden agenda is to take all Lebanon and to rule Chrsitian region.

Yes for democracy, but democracy doesnt mean that Muslim can ask for a Muslim Lebanon including Chrsitian regions !!!! do you want the war or what ???

You ask for your rights = OK but in your areas ! You cannot ask for anything in Chrsitian areas (areas that are Chrsitian since centuries !!!) as we would ask nothing in your areas !! Which is totally logical unless you want it all.

Federal Lebanon is the solution to save our country, because in thie Lebanon no one has teh power and can impose something on another sect, this ends in wars.. .like we saw before.

Asking for a federal country is saying : OK lets live together, but each one lives likes he wants without imposing anything on anyone.

[neo_758]

Originally Posted by J_Raad1450

1st:The key word is work.
2nd: Those people has to follow strict islamic codes. No freedom whatsoever. I would not tolerate to work in KSA.

I am referring to Saudi money that’s sent to preached intolerant Islamic believes (wahabism) from Chechnya to Lebanon, to IRAQ, to the USA

Let me ask you a question. Do you think KSA preaches Wahabism around the world? Yes or no?

No. You were accusing the FM, and not some "intolerant scholars".

The answer is yes, KSA preaches Wahhabism and funds its Islamic scholars to play that role.

But I guess your hatred for KSA is much more related to the current political atmosphere in Lebanon. You are clearly against FM, FM is lead by Mr. Hariri who has his connections with KSA. Do you see Saad preaching Wahhabism or even trying to transform Dar El Fatwa into a Wahhabist institute ? No.

How is KSA hurting Lebanon more than lets say Iran? How is KSA manipulating, funding militias more than Iran? I am against any foreign intervention, all intervention, not just the intervention that my prejudice and current political mood dictates upon me to temporarily oppose.

[hadito]

Originally Posted by elhorr

أهم ما في الدستور جوهره المعبر عنه في مقدمة الدستور و التي قبل الحديث عن السلطات و تنظيمها و عملها اعلنت

أن لا شرعية لسلطة تناقض العيش المشترك

الآن و لاعتبار النظام اللبناني يقوم على توافق الطوائف الامر الذي كرس في هذه المقدمة
و بما أنه لا يوجد وزراء لطائفة - و لاحظ هنا لم اقل يمثلون طائفة - اي وزراء شيعة بغض النظر عن انتمائهم الحزبي
داخل الحكومة قل لي

حكومة لا يوجد بها شيعة تناقض العيش المشترك ام لا
بغض النظر عن هوية الوزير الحزبية
كان من الافضل لتيار المستقبل لو عين سابقا وزيرا شيعيا من خطه السياسي لما كانت استقالة امل حزب الله اثارت هذه الازمة على اعتبار انه بقي في الحكومة وزيرا شيعيا ثم يصار الى تعيين بدلاء
ان الائتلاف الحكومي اتى بعد تحالف سياسي انتخابي و بعد انهيار هذا التحالف من الطبيعي ان ينهار الائتلاف و تتابع الاكثرية الحكم لكن من غير الطبيعي عدم وجود شيعة داخل السلطة التنفيذية هذا غير شرعي
و اقول شيعة و لم اقل يمثلون الشيعة لان من يمثل الشيعة عمليا هم ال و حزب الله لكن وجود شيعة داخل مجلس الوزراء حتى لو لم يكونوا من الخط السياسي لامل و حزب الله بامكانه ان يدحض قول ان الحكومة تفتقد الشرعية الميثاقية

The ministers are still legally part of the government, their resignation was rejected by the prime minister.
Let me add also that the constitution in one entity, the introduction is not more important, it is part of the constitution, and details later are not in contradiction with this introduction.

[vicking]

Originally Posted by mehdi soldier

Brother everyone have fears.and you using the fear of a christian in the middle east is just an excuse or i can say a big lie to avoid the much needed change.after all if what you are saying is true then you would have longed been kicked.but thats not true.


christians have not been treated any worst than shias.so that excuse once more is a like.lebanon is a different thing than other places.BECAUSE OF THE DIVERSITY THATs why you must accept that you fears are unrealistic and only an excuse for you yourselves to treat others unfairly.when you know that,then its clear,its not muslims versus christians where the muslims always dominate in the middle east;by muslims dominating i mean sunnis.in lebanon there are shias who have tasted oprresion just like maronites,and if there is a fair system no one will oppress anyone.



let there be secularism in govt. and everyone live the life he wants.end of story.the rest is story and excuses to admit the posible.

Yes as you say lets be SECULARISM - YES -- but we need 50 years at least (to be like in Turkey), for that we need to do it little by little...
But in the same time you VOTE FOR a Muslim Lebanon in another thread...
excuse me ya Mehdi, but I am very confused now................................

[mehdi soldier]

Originally Posted by vicking

Mehdi,

To answer your question, YES shiaa are under represented and Sunni OVER represnted. This is something that lies within the Muslim sect ; inter-Muslim dialogue.
As for us, you know very well for the reasons before that Chrsitian can give more..

now the question is how over-represented or under-represented are maronites in respect to sunnis?no there is nothing in lebanon as "inter-muslim dialogue".if there was one and muslims as a clear cut majority,i wont be here debating with you as our dreams would have long been realized ,and only you marginalized.but like i said,that isnt the situation in lebanon and therefore your fears are not real.

representation is a national issue.

Now yes there are a LOT of Lebanese Chrsitian in south America (1 Million) and around 110.000 are interrested in having the citizenship. remember, Lahoud tried to create the "expatriate card" -- not only this card was refused by Hariri but there are around 40.000 demands that are on hold since 1990 within the state to get the citizenship.
In addition, you have around 80.000 Lebanese women married to foreigner who have children that would like to get the citizenship (small part) and a big number of Palestinian, Iraqui, Egyptian that would like to get the citizenship.

being lebanese is not only having a lebanese grandfather.there must be a criteria to know who is and whos isnt.and whether you can get the citizenship from your father or mother or both.using numbers to scare others isnt going to work.if you are treated unjustly why are you waiting for others to complain in order to make your heard?it sounds to me more of a game been played.

I am AGAINST giving the citizenship to non Lebanese, but when I see that Sunni gave it to anybody.. then YES in this case OR I ask the cancelation of the 1994 law, or ask the state to provide citizenship to the person that demand it.

so let it be stopped.and whether thats on or not,the demand for a fair shai representation will always be there.the shia ,the true lebanese,are here in lebanon,not in south america (like the idea you are trying to portay of maronites) nor dashed citizenships like sunnis.

All is biased, they did everything to stop the Chrsitian from getting the citizenship while boosting it to Sunni.

THIS IS UNFAIR

i think that has nothing to do with me opening a thread to discuss another topic.open your thread to make your voice heard.TWO WRONGS CANT MAKE A RIGHT!dont use one issue to cover up another.thats unfair on its own.

[mehdi soldier]

Originally Posted by vicking

Yes as you say lets be SECULARISM - YES -- but we need 50 years at least (to be like in Turkey), for that we need to do it little by little...
But in the same time you VOTE FOR a Muslim Lebanon in another thread...
excuse me ya Mehdi, but I am very confused now................................

excuse me with your "confusion".i voted for an islamic system,just like you'd vote for any other.that doesnt mean cleansing others from lebanon.its a system like anyother.i believe in that,but not limited to it PRACTICALLY.any other thats fair to all and acceptable to all is welcome.

[mehdi soldier]

Originally Posted by Dany_TIGER

No they are not. They gave them ministers, to thank them for the elections alliance. But the Shia ministers resigned, and we all remember how they paralyzed the country for sometime last year. So should we give them more representation?? No.

nice words indeed.when you simply give them ministers just to "thank them" as you are saying (and make them pictures in your meetings),and not because its a right,thats where the problem lies.and that problem not giving them any voice as democratiyye tawafo2iyye dictates can cause unimaginable consequences.

[J_Raad1450]

Originally Posted by neo_758

No. You were accusing the FM, and not some "intolerant scholars".

The answer is yes, KSA preaches Wahhabism and funds its Islamic scholars to play that role.

But I guess your hatred for KSA is much more related to the current political atmosphere in Lebanon. You are clearly against FM, FM is lead by Mr. Hariri who has his connections with KSA. Do you see Saad preaching Wahhabism or even trying to transform Dar El Fatwa into a Wahhabist institute ? No.

How is KSA hurting Lebanon more than lets say Iran? How is KSA manipulating, funding militias more than Iran? I am against any foreign intervention, all intervention, not just the intervention that my prejudice and current political mood dictates upon me to temporarily oppose.

Yes, wahabism are taking over the mosques in Lebanon. Saudi Arabia provides money/scholars and cheiks recruits the moujahadim on the ground. It is a global process that worked well in Pakistan, Chechnya, Afghanistan and now on the rise in lebanon

It is an indirect process. I spend my spring of 2005 in Tripoli working for the election. I was in Tripoli in the election of 2000 and 1996. The mosques in Tripoli were different. More extremist views are on the rise in the mosques. Wahabism is on the rise. Wahabism is financed by KSA and Saad Hariri is a KSA puppet.