Sfeir opened his election battle against FPM

[Ashrafieh_LF]

Originally Posted by Dark Angel

you seem to have forgotten that LF and PSP had a choice in 1989, 1990 and espcially on october 13 1990, they could have stood by GMA against the syrians, but instead they chose to stand by the occupier and help him fight his last battle against the Lebanese Army.

you seem to have forgotten that one day after october 13 1990 sfeir said in his sick sunday sermon 'كابوس وقد أزيل عن لبنان' referring to GMA.

What choice did Aoun give anyone? It was his way or WAR! And his way was to take everything and dominate everybody by force!
As far as what the Patriarch said about Aoun's nightmare, how can you not agree with that?! He was a nightmare to Lebanon and the Christians! Prime minister of a 7oukoume intikaliyeh whose sole job is to allow presidential elections to take place he declares wars left and right!?!?

[CitizenOfTheRepublic]

His holiness had and still has a shrewd foresight and amazing political judgement.

History has proven how right he was on many occasions, how his decisions safeguarded the Christian community and Lebanon as a whole, and how he cannot be tricked or used.

Based on such a resume full of achievements, I can see why so many will take his word for it.

[CitizenOfTheRepublic]

Originally Posted by Ashrafieh_LF

What choice did Aoun give anyone? It was his way or WAR! And his way was to take everything and dominate everybody by force!
As far as what the Patriarch said about Aoun's nightmare, how can you not agree with that?! He was a nightmare to Lebanon and the Christians! Prime minister of a 7oukoume intikaliyeh whose sole job is to allow presidential elections to take place he declares wars left and right!?!?

You're right it's all Aoun's fault, and IRIL to quote joseph.

[kappa273]

Originally Posted by Ashrafieh_LF

What choice did Aoun give anyone? It was his way or WAR! And his way was to take everything and dominate everybody by force!
As far as what the Patriarch said about Aoun's nightmare, how can you not agree with that?! He was a nightmare to Lebanon and the Christians! Prime minister of a 7oukoume intikaliyeh whose sole job is to allow presidential elections to take place he declares wars left and right!?!?

of course, someone who tried hard not to allow the syrians to control the rest of lebanon... the one who tried to preserve any dignity left for the lebanon...

the one who was fought by each and every low life who passed by lebanon... definitely he would be a nightmare to all who don't believe in lebanon free, sovereign and independent... these are the ones who consider themselves gatekeepers to Damascus, and those who give the Keys of the Capital to the one who violated the capital... and those who after pretending to have fought the syrians for years to liberate Lebanon, suddenly go to Syria to present their condoleances while the syrian army is still occupying lebanon, and try to make a deal with the syrian secret service when they fell into the trap.... definitely, GMA was their nightmare...

but at the end of 15 years in exile, GMA was right and no matter what you or any other LF, PSP or hariri said, he was right... the syrian was an occupying force.. the syrian armies were not temporary and necessary like Hariri declared... and they needed to leave Lebanon and not regroup in Bekaa like Jounblatt wanted...

i also understand your frustration, GMA destroyed the eternal dream of batrak sfeir, geagea and his militia to have a country of their own extending from kfarshima to madfoun, geageaistan.... well too bad.. Lebanon is too small to be divided and too big to be annexed...

so you got to live with it...

kappa

[Orange Blood]

Originally Posted by Ashrafieh_LF

What choice did Aoun give anyone? It was his way or WAR! And his way was to take everything and dominate everybody by force!
As far as what the Patriarch said about Aoun's nightmare, how can you not agree with that?! He was a nightmare to Lebanon and the Christians! Prime minister of a 7oukoume intikaliyeh whose sole job is to allow presidential elections to take place he declares wars left and right!?!?

If Aoun was a nightmare to the Christians, than what was geagea? The messiah?

[Dark Angel]

Originally Posted by Ashrafieh_LF

What choice did Aoun give anyone? It was his way or WAR! And his way was to take everything and dominate everybody by force!
As far as what the Patriarch said about Aoun's nightmare, how can you not agree with that?! He was a nightmare to Lebanon and the Christians! Prime minister of a 7oukoume intikaliyeh whose sole job is to allow presidential elections to take place he declares wars left and right!?!?

what do you mean what choice did he give anyone? let's take one step back.

LF claims that it had to refuse the unification with the Army, and had to fight GMA in the process, because it could not entrust him upon the cause, and it could not entrust him upon the weapons it needed to fight the syrians.

and at the end of the day, the LF helps the syrians out on october 13 1990 (with the same weapons it didn't entrust GMA on, ironically enough) after fighting GMA so fiercely, and then surrenders straight into the arms of the syrians. so it seems that samir geagea made his choice from day one. at the expense of his so called cause.

so you ask me what choice did samir geagea have? how about not fighting the army? how about not helping the syrians out? how about fighting the syrians with the same ferocity he fought GMA? how about refusing to surrender the LF's weapons so easily?

there are two types of LF supporters my friend, the misguided ones who are facinated by the flags and the songs, and the ones who are linked to geagea through tribal ties. one of these two symptoms is not curable. i am not sure which category you belong to, but for god's sake think for yourself.

as to sfeir, he was acting back then just like he is acting now, no wonder he gets along with samir so well, he is the patriarch of deception.

[elador]

Originally Posted by Makiabel

This is your opinion ya Elador, FPM's Charter says different...we're a Secular party khweja :-)

What I meant was that FPM party represents the majority of the christians (70% until otherwise proven).

we are a secular party but till now most of FPMers are christians and that's a fact.

[elador]

Since the BS didn't deny what al massira wrote he indirectly confirmed every word they wrote. Now he deserves a proper reply from GMA and SF.

Anyone noticed that in his "wa3za" in front of the Army commander the BS hasnt mentioned anything about Heckel and Jeckel who are attacking the army and its officials??

[TayyarBeino]

المسيحيون والجنرال والانتخابات


واصف عواضة

إذا صحّ الكلام الذي نقل عن البطريرك الماروني نصر الله صفير، من أن نجاح قوى 8 آذار في الانتخابات سيؤدي إلى أخطاء ذات وزن، يكون البطريرك قد دخل الحملة الانتخابية لمصلحة فريق الرابع عشر من آذار من الباب العريض، ولم يعد في إمكان أحد أن يجادل في حياد الكنيسة المارونية، او رأسها على الاقل، في المعركة الانتخابية المقبلة.
بعيداً عن الانفعال، يمكن التسليم بأن من حق البطريرك صفير أن يكون له موقف سياسي، ولطالما كان للكنيسة تاريخياً موقف سياسي، تدلل على ذلك البيانات الشهرية الصادرة عن مجلس المطارنة الموارنة، وهو ما يقود إلى أن مقولة فصل الدين عن السياسة باتت من الماضي، لكن الكنيسة كانت تتهيب دائماً دعم فريق سياسي مسيحي على حساب فريق آخر، وان كان مثل هذا الموقف قد اتخذته مواربة أكثر من مرة، ما دفعها الى الصدام مع مسيحيي المعارضة. ولعله من حق أي كان أن يسأل: لماذا يعاب على بطريرك الموارنة ان يتخذ مثل هذا الموقف، فيما الزعماء الروحيون للسنة والشيعة والدروز منحازون إلى الزعامات السياسية في طوائفهم؟
في اي حال، هذا رأي البطريرك، وليس من حق أحد أن يجادله في رأيه، إلا انه ليس من حق احد في الوقت نفسه ان يحتدّ او ينفعل اذا ما تعرض البطريرك للانتقاد من الفريق الآخر، لأن من يقرع الباب يفترض أن يسمع الجواب. ولكن ثمة من يعتبر ان انخراط البطريركية المارونية في المعركة، وقبل ذلك انفصال النائب ميشال المر عن كتلة التغيير والإصلاح، تحت يافطة الوسطية والاعتدال، والمعارك الجانبية التي فتحت خلال الاسبوعين الماضيين سواء على موازنة مجلس الجنوب او التنصت، وانفراط شهر العسل بين وليد جنبلاط وطلال ارسلان، كل ذلك يدلل بما لا يرقى إليه شك أن انتخابات 2009 ستكون ساخنة وساخنة جداً، وان قوى 14 آذار تحكمها هواجس بالغة حيال هذه المعركة.
وأمام هذه الأسلحة المتعددة التي تستخدم دفعة واحدة، والحديث عن المال الانتخابي السخي، لا يعني هذا أن الهواجس غائبة ايضاً عن فريق 8 آذار، حيث ترى أوساط متابعة في هذا الفريق انه لا تجب الاستهانة بما يجري والنوم على حرير، خصوصاً في ما يعني الخاصرة المسيحية في هذا الفريق، وتحديداً التيار الوطني الحر والقوى المتحالفة معه في إطار تكتل التغيير والاصلاح.
إن المعادلة باتت واضحة في هذا الإطار: يربح الجنرال عون المعركة، تربح المعارضة وفريقها، والعكس صحيح تماماً. فالمعركة الحقيقية هي في الساحة المسيحية وملعبها، وتحديداً في ثلاث دوائر رئيسية: المتن وبيروت الأولى (الاشرفية ) وزحلة. ومهما دفع حلفاء الجنرال (مسلمو المعارضة تحديداً) بثقلهم في هذه الدوائر فلن يتمكنوا من تغيير الواقع إذا لم يعتمد العماد عون خطة محكمة تضع نتائج انتخابات 2005 وحساباتها وراء الظهر، سواء بالنسبة للوائح والمرشحين أو الماكينات الانتخابية وكامل عدة الشغل.
في هذا الإطار ثمة في المعــارضة من ينـصح العماد عون قبل أربعة أشهر من الانتخابات، بأن مصلحة المعارضة مجتمعة يفترض أن تكون فوق مصلحة أحزابها جميعاً، وبالتحديد التيار الوطني الحر، وأن في الساحة المسيحية شخصيات وطنية مستعدة للانضواء تحت لواء تكتل التغيير والإصلاح وبزعامته، وعليه أن يحسن الاختيار في اللوائح الانتخابية في كل الدوائر، حتى لا يندم الجميع ساعة لا ينفع الندم.

As-Safir Newspaper - واصÙ� عواضة : المسيØ*يون والجنرال والانتخابات

[hunter007]

Originally Posted by Orange Blood

If Aoun was a nightmare to the Christians, than what was geagea? The messiah?

If Aoun Was a Nightmare for Christians, so why over 70% of them vote for him in 2005 ?

The Problem is the Batrak Himself, and those who help Syrians on the 13 of october. Shame on you LF