A serious question about Lebanese youth and work...

[liberte_toujours]

Yes of course

We can add to that the fact that parents put the education of their children on their 1st priority... not only coz we don't need to work w coz of prestige...

A lot of the actual parents of ppl my age didn't have the future they hoped for, u know with the war and everything... I think they just want us to be in the most confortable position for any youth in a normal world, just concentrate on our studies and our entourage that's all... They had a lot of problems during their time, a lot had to fight, a lot had to carry weapons, they just want to offer us the best youth we can ever have I suppose...

[X]

I want to salute all the ones who are working, Amerkani its really hard to be in their place, knowing that they have friends (or at least people in their school or university) who will have a 2005 model car, the latest mobile phone (and change it each month to a new one) who have a chalet on the beach and one in the mountains, who come to school wearing cloths worth 5000$ (of course all this with the money of their parents)

Believe me its so hard, someone who goes to university in the morning and works after that and sleeps for 4 hours just to make 400$ a month, while someone else takes 400$ from his dad every day to show off in the university in front of his friends!

It’s all about our sick society, spoiled generations growing up, people who speak English or French instead of Arabic! People who are not responsible at all about anything, they will try anything, (Enno who cares? Daddy will help me out if I get caught using drugs)

In several universities it has become a tradition, if I nice looking girl wants to succeed in her courses she has to sleep with the teacher! (I know it’s off topic but well this is kind of prostitution, and prostitution is a job)

So in the end, people like Tazzzi makes me proud, Tazzzi remember that after you suffered and didn’t have the fun you should have in that age, now your life will be much better, while those spoiled kids who spent the 3 years playing around will not have their daddies around for the rest of their lives to count on.

[Phoenician]

I totally believe inno people should work, bas it should not get in the way of their studies if they don't actually have to work. But for example here in the states, everyone does an internship during the summers. Bistahle iza one of my friends (guys and girls alike) would even consider it in the summer.

[Amirkani]

Ok, based on what you're saying, I will change the list as follows:

List of barriers in the order of most prevalent to the least prevalent (the way I understood it from the posts, but I could be wrong):

1) Damage to "prestige" (I am going to give a very loose definition of prestige here. I will define it the way I think the Lebanese society sees it in general (not that it's the correct definition): "Prestige is how other people PERCEIVE our family's financial well-being and/or extent of influence".

2) Lack of incentives for students to work as long as they are (over-)sheltered by family members (I like the Teta, Amtou and Khalou example).

3) Dedication to education given top priority by parents.

4) The difficulty of the Lebanese high school curriculum.

5) Lack of jobs with reasonable pay that a student can do.


Off-topic Note
Baddi fishillkoun khil2koun shway: we have been without electricity in my area for the last 2 days (and maybe for the next 2). Being Lebanese though, I am prepared w' mshaghal el-moteur. My neighbors are puzzled and they keep coming one after the other and asking me how come I have power and they don't. Maybe I should tell them because I am Lebanese.

[liberte_toujours]

X,

It’s all about our sick society, spoiled generations growing up, people who speak English or French instead of Arabic

chou asdak? some talk armenian instead of arabic too ;) it's not a criteria!
I dont wanna defend the snobbies, or the frenchies or whoever, but really it's not a factor of being "spoiled" or not... I'm not spoiled, but I'm better in speaking french rather than arabic, I'm not proud of it, but the school I come from and the university I study in right now are more concentrated on french and english than arabic... Professionally speaking it's way better X, really, come to think about it, u can't get a marketing BA or any other degree without having a good level of English or French!!!

But I do agree with everything else u talked about...

[liberte_toujours]

amirkani, great job with the electricity thing, my cousins in NC have been doing the same thing for years ;) and yes, they told their neighbours that it's coz they r Lebanese ;) ;) ;)

thx for putting "3) Dedication to education given top priority by parents. "

come to think abt it, it should be nb. 1... I tried once 3al khafif to say sth to my parents abt a certain job... they were like "dresseh, darsik aham" I think it could be generalised to a lot of ppl.

and the actual nb. 1 should be nb.3 coz if we r oversheltered by teta and 3amto, we don't have to work.

[Amirkani]

X, I see your point and I fully understand it. I have seen similar behavior from some Lebanese students (a minority, not all) who have come to the USA to study.

We should all be proud of students who struggle to establish themselves in life (and tazzzi is a good example of that).

The reason I started this topic is because I personally feel (again, I could be wrong) that it is a serious problem in Lebanon. I feel it was a problem during my student days and it's still a problem now. What worries me though is that I think it will be an even bigger problem in the future if we do not address its causes now.

I have my own personal thoughts about its many roots and causes but I would rather hear from the students. I have learned from dealing with my own children that just pointing out the mistakes doesn't usually lead to useful results. However, having peer-to-peer (nid-la-nid, as your equal) discussions with them gets great results. The students on this board have come up so far with several important points. And believe me, I am not trying to patronize anyone here.


Another point I want to make is that I feel that "having a joyful fun youth" and "working" shouldn't necessarily be mutually exclusive. Sometimes they are, but we shouldn't state such a thing as a rule. For example, I think the youth in the USA are afforded more fun time and activities than in any other country in the world. However, most of them start working at a young age while still in school. I know the socio-economical (even political) situation in Lebanon is quite different, but let us continue the discussions to discover where the roots of the problems are and how the Lebanese society can address them.

[zix]

In several universities it has become a tradition, if I nice looking girl wants to succeed in her courses she has to sleep with the teacher! (I know it’s off topic but well this is kind of prostitution, and prostitution is a job)

it will be a nice topic X, a topic that reflects the bitter reality of the situation in most of our universities and schools.

concerning the subject.
i just want to mention that the difference between the lebanese society and the american society is the reason of the point that many students don't work in lebanon.
in the lebanese context, working means money, so if we don't need money we don't work, and i am talking in general. (ma yotla3leh 7adan y2elleh na cheyif exception).
in the american or european context, working means activity and experience. it means, for a 14 or 15 years old a little bit of independance and a way to see people and to know how life will be in the future.
in many countries, we respect person on what they are doing or working but in lebanon, the person is respected on how much money he have and they don't look on the way of getting money.
when you work in lebanon and you still a student, means that you need money and that you are poor; and malheureusement, people in lebanon judge others on money, that is why, many students don't work.
that is what some friends here in the forum said: " el prestige ma byesma7loun".
the problem is not about working, it is about what the others say and think about the student who works.
you are going to say, that a free person doean't have to be influenced by the society, neighboors and friends.
ok, it is not a problem. and what about his girlfriend? maybe some girls will accepted that but, knowing lebanese girls and all their superficial mind, many of those won't be "proud" about the job of their boyfriend and will prefer a son of a millionnaire to go out with (halla2 badna neikoul bahdaleh min kell el sabaya bil forum w baddoun y2oulo: mich kelloun hek, so, ana i am talking in general).
and, if we found a girl who accepted and think in the same way, her parents won't accept and they will make many problems everyday.

so, the problem is not in working, it is in a sick society. the problem is in the mind of people.

finally, in what i said, i am talking about working in summer.
it is also more difficult to work and study in the same time.
in lebanon, university's system is much more difficult then in US, and it is, almost impossible to di it. i think, that the person who can do it, is really a great person which deserve all the respect.
so, congratulation tazzzi for what you did.

[X]

Liberte, those who speak Armenian are Lebanese Armenians, but those who speak English/French are not Lebanese English/French

Since we are talking about them (Lebanese Armenians) I think we should mention something about them, or better say Lebanese should learn from them, those people who were born in Lebanon, their parents were also born in Lebanon, but they still hang on with their grandparent’s mother language while the Lebanese who are in Lebanon prefer the English/French on their mother language!

I was not generalizing it! I myself am forced to learn French now (even if I hate it) because in my work I need to know French! As a web designer/master im forced to know perfect English so even that im English educated, im far from being perfect in it, but I will also attend English courses to learn the professional language! But im talking about those 18 years old teenagers, you hear them talking French/English fluently while they can’t put an Arabic sentence together in a right way, even more then this, there are lot of parents who speak French with their 3 years old son/daughter! Im not against knowing 2nd or 3rd language, but im against it when you’re French becomes your first language or better say when you speak French better then Arabic!

Zix, I will open a topic about something similar to this I have in mind.

[Libnan Ot3et Sama]

hayk ya zix bte7ki 3an el banet !!! :P anyway thats really ture.... working in lebanon is like a shame and also coz there are not good salaries, so el wa7ad bifaker eno ana badi rou7 eshteghel 8 hours menshen 15 $ per day!!!
not talking abuot school and work, but lebanese minds ( generaly speaking), lets take the example of a wedding where u have to be dressed well and of course for we girls , we have to be noticed :p so the girl will go and buy a dress of minimum 200$ whereas her parents just earn like 400$ per month !! and when another wedding will come, she wont dress it again coz people will speak about how come she has the same dress!! thats funny, i mean if i have a brain :roll: i wouldnt dare just buying a cloth of 200$ and my parents are working daily for just 400$, i saw that so many times in lebanon, and im a girl living abroad and i just cant do that even if i can afford it coz i know how it is hard to get that money i mean the value of things.... hayda an example w fi kteer metlo unfortunately, yes people have problems in mind, ma el hamdela that we have such things to care about coz u know we havent got problems in lebanon, we have a democratic country with a great government(smallah 3layon kel wa7ad mitel el 2erd :P w mish msada2 7alo wossel 3ala kerset el 7oukoumeh) anyway lets hope for a better country even if it is hard to , maybe patience is a key of success...