Reforming Lebanon and Beirut's transport network

[elias-aj]

Dodzi is on fire !

There is a website (in french) about railways in Lebanon which could be worth a visit : www.afacliban.org.

[Booyakasha]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

Dodzi is on fire !

There is a website (in french) about railways in Lebanon which could be worth a visit : www.afacliban.org.

Neat link elias! Too bad that their last event dates back to 2002..
Hope Dodzi's thread and the subsequent enthusiasm will stem their revival!

[LiNk]

Originally Posted by dodzi

Other than that 2 remarks/questions:
- I am very skeptical about phase 3. Do many people commute between Tripoli and Baalbak and between Saïda and Nabatieh? It is important to ask these question in order to determine the cost-efficiency of building such a network. It also seems a lot of investment for lines between only 2-3 stations.

It is obvious that any decision related to a possible construction of a railroad would be upon a meticulous study. This is not the case here since I hastily arranged that sketch on paint.
However, the certain interest in having those railways would basically be of economic nature. Nabatieh/Baalbek would thus be directely connected to the ports of Tyr and Tripoli.
I know for instance that the Bcharre road from Deir el Ahmar is commonly used for freight transportation. That was my principal hint for a possible need.

- also, is Ehden important as a station? And how about adding Zahlé, Aley and Damour?

As I previously noted, the railway system I presented contains potential major stations. Rapid trains (InterCity) would only stop in major cities or major "plaques-tournantes" (Excuse me for the french but I can't find the appropriate term in english).

Zahle, would of course be one of those. And if I remember well there used to be a big train station in Chtoura/Dahr el Baydar.

Furthermore, small stations or "stops" would be present in every other big or middle-sized city that happens to be on the line. Other trains, the regular ones, would make their stops on each one of those.

Originally Posted by dodzi

Beirut's norther suburbs would also be served thanks to a parallel train network, similar to the Parisian RER. This "RER" would serve Dora, Antelias (or Dbayeh) and Zouk Mkayel. These stops would also include bus networks leaving from there to serve the surrounding neighborhoods that do not have easy access to the train (for instance Jal el Dib, Naccach, Bsalim, Kaslik, Sarba, etc.).

NB: the big blue line is the "RER". Notice how the purple line connects the surrounding neighborhoods to the Dora station.

I like your idea of a Beiruti RER, however I got two questions/remarks:

- Why not expanding it to southern Beirut? Like in Paris, this line would cut through Beirut from north to south having it's main station downtown.

- Although I like the idea, don't you think the rail stations would be quite sufficient due to the relatively small number of commuters Lebanon would have when compared to a large Megalopolis like Paris?

I salute you for your effort and your hard work! Keep the enthusiasm!

[Mar1K]

Originally Posted by dodzi

When I suggested structuring the project in 7 phases, it was just a suggestion, and I did not intend to classify them chronologically or in terms of importance.

It was first and foremost to make the readers understand that the planning had to be a) rational, b) cost-efficient, c) possible, and focused on both passengers AND industry.

Beirut's train station is situated in the Northern part of Beirut (near the Seaport), and looking at a satellite map, you can see that the train tracks can find their place through the densely neighborhood north of Beirut, all the way to Jounieh. Of course, the trick is to build tracks around Jounieh without affecting the urban areas. Once past Jounieh, the train can easily go towards Tripoli, and further to Homs.

Okay, all modern countries have major stations in highly populated areas and smaller stations in smaller suburbs. The true challenge is building the tracks, positioning stations along the track should be easier (i guess so).

I dont want to turn it into a political/sectarian debate (la enno ma mnoussal la natijeh w ba3dein l fekra momtezeh lal balad), but the point is, all the attention during the (marouniyyeh l siyessiyyeh) era was going towards Xians populated areas and when (Haririyyeh l siyessiyyeh) took over, everything turned into Beirut ignoring the rest of the country. I am not asking for (southern suburbs, south, bekaa) to be treated any better, I am only asking for equality.

Building a track towards the South is more of a challenge. It would be possible by building tracks under the roads, or then forget the connection and build a new station South of Beirut, possibly between the Camille Chamoun Stadium and Horsh Beyrouth.

That sounds like a great idea, a Mar Mkhayel or Mcharrafiyyeh station would be a great idea to connect Da7yeh to Beirut DT avoiding ras el nabeh nightmare traffic (Maybe as a Metro station, subway)

But if that doesn't happen in phase one, phase two does include bus lines that serve all of the focal points of Beirut, including the southern suburbs. Phase 3 would serve all the neighborhoods of Beirut, including the less dense suburbs.

As I said before, it is not a chronological subdivision, but rather a ration one: the Northern train lines would be built to create a connection a) between the two biggest Lebanese cities (Beirut and Tripoli), and b) between Beirut, Tripoli, and international destinations like Homs, Turkey, and the rest of the Arab world, primarily for industrial and commercial purposes!

Rebuilding the train tracks through the mountains to the Bekaa valley took in my reflections, more time and money. It is also a less populated area (same for the south in a lesser way) than the areas north of Beirut...

But you have to treat everyone equally... Bekaa and south have been deprived for many many years, is it because the areas are less populated (which i disagree with)

Same as for the metro, I am not sure it would be cost-efficient. It is an interesting idea, but not necessarily to be thought by a public planning. It could be included in the last phases of the planning (possibly phase seven), but it is not a priority, as it takes more time than the train, and serves less areas than the bus!

I find it as equally important as a train line, why not outsource a Metro transport network to a contractor for a certain amount and shares the gain?

The question really is about what are we trying to reach, better transport for highly densed areas or encouraging transit and an industry focused train line. Why not both? If the government can afford one, why not outsource the second?

It would still create more jobs if the contractor is obliged to use local workforce etc...

[LiNk]

Originally Posted by Mar1K

I find it as equally important as a train line, why not outsource a Metro transport network to a contractor for a certain amount and shares the gain?

Hi Mar1K,

Building a metro line will make us bear tremendous costs. Digging tens of kilometers of tunnels under Beirut alone will make us double our national debt.
Let go the idea. It's too expensive and certainly not realistic.
A RER could most likely represent a viable solution for Beirut. It provides the needed advantage while being relatively cheap to obtain.

Originally Posted by Mar1K

But you have to treat everyone equally... Bekaa and south have been deprived for many many years, is it because the areas are less populated (which i disagree with)

The Bekaa valley is a gold mine Lebanon possesses, it's gonna take an eternity before the Lebanese do understand it. I know the Romans did.
Economically speaking it is one of the greatest assets the country has. Railways would eventually make business flourish and give the Bekaa its former agricultural importance. It might also push towards a development of manufacturing corporations related to food processing.

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by LiNk

I like your idea of a Beiruti RER, however I got two questions/remarks:

- Why not expanding it to southern Beirut? Like in Paris, this line would cut through Beirut from north to south having it's main station downtown.

- Although I like the idea, don't you think the rail stations would be quite sufficient due to the relatively small number of commuters Lebanon would have when compared to a large Megalopolis like Paris?

I salute you for your effort and your hard work! Keep the enthusiasm!

I didn't expand my version of the map to Southern Beirut for three reasons:

- first, I did mention it, but I asked for other posters to give their input for this thread. I simply didn't make a southern tracé (pardon my French) hoping that someone else would.

- also, as a typical Eastern-Beiruti, I painted a tracé for the areas I knew best (Achrafieh, Antelias, Kaslik, etc.). I usually took the bus number 2, taking us from Hamra to Antelias through Achrafieh and Dora. My bus network for the rest of Beirut is kind of random, as I don't know the commuting habits of the people who would likely use the public transports there...

- finally, I didn't randomly think of the RER/Train network: I looked closely at the maps to know if the construction of train tracks from Beirut to Jounieh was possible (which is the case). However, I found that the only way to build tracks to Southern Beirut was either to build tracks from Beirut's Seaport all the way around Beirut to the South, or simply to build a new station between Horsh Beirut and Camille Chamoun stadium.

Your solution, to build a station that would cut Beirut North to South, seems unlikely. It would either require razing a whole set of buildings, between Gemmayze, Bachoura, Basta, Mazraa and Tariq Jdideh, or build the entire tracks underground, which in the case of Beirut (geologically, but also because of unorganized pipelines), seems impossible or requiring too much time and money.

As for your final point, it is all still to be studied, but you make a fine point. My opinion on Beirut's northern RER's efficiency is merely speculation. But considering the high number of cars that use the Jal el Dib highway to commute between Beirut's northern suburbs and cities and Beirut's center, I'm quite confident that the RER would be seen as a breath of fresh air.

Indeed, the number of commuters in Lebanon is not negligible. 1 million and a half people living in and around Beirut, that's more than Europe's capital, Brussels, which has, in my opinion, one of the best and cheapest transport system I know...

[Mar1K]

Originally Posted by LiNk

Hi Mar1K,

Building a metro line will make us bear tremendous costs. Digging tens of kilometers of tunnels under Beirut alone will make us double our national debt.

Let go the idea. It's too expensive and certainly not realistic.

A RER could most likely represent a viable solution for Beirut. It provides the needed advantage while being relatively cheap to obtain.

I hear you but this is why i suggested outsourcing it for the highest bidder (still with keeping a percentage for the government). At least have an auction with some sort of a reserve to meet (i am not too sure how these auctions work so excuse my ignorance there).

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by Mar1K

Okay, all modern countries have major stations in highly populated areas and smaller stations in smaller suburbs. The true challenge is building the tracks, positioning stations along the track should be easier (i guess so).

I dont want to turn it into a political/sectarian debate (la enno ma mnoussal la natijeh w ba3dein l fekra momtezeh lal balad), but the point is, all the attention during the (marouniyyeh l siyessiyyeh) era was going towards Xians populated areas and when (Haririyyeh l siyessiyyeh) took over, everything turned into Beirut ignoring the rest of the country. I am not asking for (southern suburbs, south, bekaa) to be treated any better, I am only asking for equality.

(...)

But you have to treat everyone equally... Bekaa and south have been deprived for many many years, is it because the areas are less populated (which i disagree with)

Bekaa and South are less populated areas. You might disagree but it is true. Simply look at satellite images of Beirut and you'll notice that Beirut's northern suburb is highly dense all the way to Jounieh, while its southern suburb seems to end at Laylake.

Second of all, Beirut's northern tracks will not only transport people to more and bigger cities (Jounieh, Jbeil, Batroun and Tripoli, compared to Damour, Saïda and Sour), but also transport goods from Beirut's port to Syria and Turkey.

Of course I'm not saying we should forget about the South and the Bekaa. To the contrary, we should also build tracks linking Saïda-Sour and Zahlé-Baalbek. But I am focusing on more immediate problems: the roads within Beirut, and between Beirut and it's norther and eastern suburbs are always congested, while it is not --as much-- the case for the areas you want us to treat equally...

That sounds like a great idea, a Mar Mkhayel or Mcharrafiyyeh station would be a great idea to connect Da7yeh to Beirut DT avoiding ras el nabeh nightmare traffic (Maybe as a Metro station, subway)

(...)

I find it as equally important as a train line, why not outsource a Metro transport network to a contractor for a certain amount and shares the gain?

As LiNk said, a metro's pretty much out of the question. We're talking huge digs, humongous costs, unorganized underground pipelines, years of investments for a poor return. Lebanon could simply not bear the costs.

The question really is about what are we trying to reach, better transport for highly densed areas or encouraging transit and an industry focused train line. Why not both? If the government can afford one, why not outsource the second?

It would still create more jobs if the contractor is obliged to use local workforce etc...

We are indeed focusing on both freight and transit. However, we shouldn't see too big. Most Western European cities developed their transportation system at a slow pace since the end of the 19th century. It was however able to invest massively during the 30 glorieuse (basically the 30 years of high growth after WWII), so that today everyone can benefit from a well-functioning network. In Belgium, people living in very remote areas can even order a bus that would take them (alone or with a very cost-inefficient number of people) from their village to their chosen destination, at a low price (a law exists, declaring that every citizen has the right to an efficient source of public transportation).

Lebanon does not have the luxury to go as far as Western countries. It neither has the money nor the proper infrastructure. We need to take it step by step. The day will come when every Lebanese citizen, North, South, Bekaa or Beirut, will have a proper access to a means of public transportation. But we can't do that in one day...

Originally Posted by Mar1K

I hear you but this is why i suggested outsourcing it for the highest bidder (still with keeping a percentage for the government). At least have an auction with some sort of a reserve to meet (i am not too sure how these auctions work so excuse my ignorance there).

There's something called public procurement: the government still retains the rights to a certain project (the railway in this case), but it makes a call for bids to see who it will hand the management of the project to. It avoids "selling" the project without being able to keep an eye on what's happening.

It's basically like hiring a new manager, but the procedures are public and hence transparent and fair: the governments publishes a call for bids, to which many companies will respond. The government then organizes a competition, where the company that offers the best plan for the smallest price would get the deal. The government would hence be paying this company to do the project. The governments keeps the benefits however, which would help finance the project. If the management isn't satisfactory, then either the company managing the project would be fired, or it would be penalized with a fine...

[Diabolo_7]

dodzi,

I dont want to rain on your parade here, as a matter of fact, you have been doing a good job so far.

There was a group from Harvard that includes a Lebanese American architect that did a study on implementing a public transport system to and from DT Beirut. Finding out why it was never implemented would save you the time and energy you are spending in this thread.

Regards

[Mar1K]

Okay, by no means the Bekaa or any other city is dense as Beirut or Tripoly but that does not mean they have less people, they just have more land.

Traffic wise, i agree, i got stuck on dawra few times and it's not fun... at all... that part is horrible, but the souther suburb is just as bad inside...

As for freight, having freight go through Bekaa is not a bad idea at all, The bekaa needs those job opportunities and is very close to the borders plus Bekaa has not seen development and has been forgotten for a long time and freight/transit would definitely be a thing to invest in.

As for Beirut and Beirut metropolitan area, I totally agree, the cost is very high but, if we do not own such a sector in the beginning, why not auction the project for the highest bidder, the winner will collect profit, we do not bare the cost of building the infrastructure and still we can keep a percentage of the profit. Plus, you get the advantage of solving the traffic problem.

Originally Posted by dodzi

Bekaa and South are less populated areas. You might disagree but it is true. Simply look at satellite images of Beirut and you'll notice that Beirut's northern suburb is highly dense all the way to Jounieh, while its southern suburb seems to end at Laylake.

Second of all, Beirut's northern tracks will not only transport people to more and bigger cities (Jounieh, Jbeil, Batroun and Tripoli, compared to Damour, Saïda and Sour), but also transport goods from Beirut's port to Syria and Turkey.

Of course I'm not saying we should forget about the South and the Bekaa. To the contrary, we should also build tracks linking Saïda-Sour and Zahlé-Baalbek. But I am focusing on more immediate problems: the roads within Beirut, and between Beirut and it's norther and eastern suburbs are always congested, while it is not --as much-- the case for the areas you want us to treat equally...



As LiNk said, a metro's pretty much out of the question. We're talking huge digs, humongous costs, unorganized underground pipelines, years of investments for a poor return. Lebanon could simply not bear the costs.



We are indeed focusing on both freight and transit. However, we shouldn't see too big. Most Western European cities developed their transportation system at a slow pace since the end of the 19th century. It was however able to invest massively during the 30 glorieuse (basically the 30 years of high growth after WWII), so that today everyone can benefit from a well-functioning network. In Belgium, people living in very remote areas can even order a bus that would take them (alone or with a very cost-inefficient number of people) from their village to their chosen destination, at a low price (a law exists, declaring that every citizen has the right to an efficient source of public transportation).

Lebanon does not have the luxury to go as far as Western countries. It neither has the money nor the proper infrastructure. We need to take it step by step. The day will come when every Lebanese citizen, North, South, Bekaa or Beirut, will have a proper access to a means of public transportation. But we can't do that in one day...