Reality Slap!

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

try to understand that FPM is not HA.

Then let FPM act like it. It will make it easy for everyone to understand. Right now the way you are acting most people are understanding the opposite.

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Then let FPM act like it. It will make it easy for everyone to understand. Right now the way you are acting most people are understanding the opposite.

No most people understood it well, that's why the popular vote is 55% towards FPM and 45% towards those who are cooperating with Syria and Saudi. From those 45% and 100,000 people were brought from outside and have no idea what the situation is so they don't understand the situation at all, which makes those who understand the opposite less than 35%.

[Lebanon]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Diabolo SLAP or not, this is the reality of the independent voter:

Well before the elections, most independents understood Jumblat's flipfloping and expected as much. Most independents understood that Hezbollah is the de facto military ruler of Lebanon and will not be disarmed by force. Most independents knew very well that Berri will be the speaker. Most independents understood that Hariri won't be the savior, and LF isn't mother Mary. Most didn't expect radical change in the Hezbollah arms situation. And most independents still voted against your blatant support and defense of everything Hezbollah does, your justifications and defense of their weapons and internal incursions, and your political and policy alignment with Iran and Syria. Had the opposition won, Hezbollah would have been entirely at the helm. The Syrian Iranian policy would have been entirely uncontested. And it was clear to the voter that you had already agreed to that.

The loyalists aren't a savory bunch, but they were the only available alternative to the voter. How they move forward on the issue of Hezbollah's weapons and control of the country, however weak it may be, it will always remain a notch lower than the complete capitulation that FPM exhibited. One has to remember that Hezbollah practically rules Lebanon already militarily, and that the government in all its functions is and will be under duress. My preference remains as it always had been the political isolation of Hezbollah, and not necessarily taking reckless military action against Hezbollah as you like to claim. I never expected Saad Hariri to do that and he is not, but what was the alternative? voting for Hezbollah!!? Believe me I will be criticizing the new government's approach to Hezbollah's weapons, but that doesn't mean that one should regret the results of the elections, for a win by the opposition would have been significantly worse on this particular issue, and it would have put Hezbollah and its regional sponsors politicaly at the helm, more than they already are by the power of their gun.

Regarding HA's weapons, please point the difference between FPM's stances and those of Saad/Joumblat. Other than FPM being obvious, blatant and honest about it, how is it different from what the loyalists are blabbering about now.

I don't understand something like "your political and policy alignment with Iran and Syria". Can you please help me there by mentioning a few examples? Allying with Hizballa doesnt count as one.

Since you definitely know that the loyalists wouldn't have done much regarding the weapons, and HA is strong no matter who got the parliament majority since you are saying "that Hezbollah practically rules Lebanon already militarily", wouldn't it have been a great opportunity to give FPM a chance to govern, based on successes seen at some ministries handled by FPMers.

[elias-aj]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Then let FPM act like it. It will make it easy for everyone to understand. Right now the way you are acting most people are understanding the opposite.

FPM acts as FPM. It doesn't mean FPM is perfect though. It doesn't mean FPM hasn't committed mistakes. But FPM has its own identity, its own stances, its own political program.

But let's stop speaking about FPM. FPM is not the ruling party in Lebanon. The ruling party in Lebanon is the one you voted for, and the one which has been in charge since 1992. Accountability Joseph ? Find me a single decision they took which was better than what FPM proposed regarding HA weapons which is your primary issue. And I don't want to hear about stances, intentions, speeches and so on. I want facts, I want decisions, I want something concrete.

We'll see then if FPM is or not acting as FPM.

[hannaalsayssa]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

You are aligned with Syrian/Iranian policy, and boldly asking me silly questions on the topic!! What an irony!!

14shbatt supporters such as you have many issues to deal with.


1-hating FPM as usual.
2-seeing their master sa3doun kissing up to bachar while they can not utter a peep
3-watching their masters master and their main fund raiser and benefactor visiting syria this weekend and daring not open their mouth.

3an jadd 7aram walla.

WE ARE FREE WHILE YOU GUYS are your leader's slaves.
i just pity you all,
sa3doun/sunni election win in JUN7 was hollow.

the christian followers in 14 shbatt are pathetic with no input what so ever, used mainly as a barking tool when needed and to no effect if i might add LOL .
since neither GENERAL nor HA bye7esbou 7sabounn LOLLLLLLL.

14 shbatt should feel lucky that FPM exist or sa3doun would have not bothered spent a cici on them.

[Diabolo_7]

حرب شكر لخادم الحرمين الشريفين جهوده لتوفير الاجواء المناسبة لتسهيل تشكيل الحكومة

[Revolution1989]

Originally Posted by elias-aj

I said I was hoping they will understand their mistake. Hoping. [...]

It seems you can slap them as much as you like, they won't wake up. ...

See Joseph_Lubnan's answer to your post... I think it is quite representative of the mindset of those you're trying to convince, hoping they'll understand their mistake.
You are assuming good faith on their part. I think you're wrong. They support proven criminals, collaborators and corrupts, against people who have a project and a vision... but because they don't like to admit this simple fact, they try to "vail" it with some random comments about FPM not being FPM, etc, providing HA legitimacy, etc, Hariri being patriot and GMA syrian collaborators, etc.
We tried "debating"... Useless.... Let them enjoy Hariri, Joumblatt and Gea3gea3, they deserve no better...

[kappa273]

from assafir July 4th, 2009

وفيما كانت بعض الماكينات الإعلامية تنظم حملة استصراحات ضد الزيارة دشنها جعجع والجميل، بدا واضحا، أمس، أن موقع 14 آذار، الذي يشرف عليه سياسيا «تيار المستقبل» أجرى مقابلات ترويجية لزيارة الحريري الى دمشق مع كل من النائب «المستقبلي» سمير الجسر والنائب «المستقبلي» الثاني هادي حبيش، وقال الأول انه لا معارضة
للزيارة، «فنحن نعلم أن أي دولة لا تجد استقرارها إذا كانت على عداء مع الدول المحيطة بها، فكيف الحال اذا كان لنا جارة وحيدة هي سوريا؟ فليس من مصلحة لبنان وسوريا أن يكونا على عداوة، وكل ما نطلبه هو علاقة متساوية، ولن نمانع أي تحرك او لقاء مع سوريا ضمن العلاقة الندية».
وقال حبيش ان زيارة الحريري الى دمشق ستكون مفيدة ولن تؤثر سلبا على الوضع اللبناني وستصب في مصلحة لبنان وستستكمل مطالب «ثورة الأرز».

do u remember when GMA visited Syria?

what was he called? are we allowed to call Saadoun the same ?

kappa

[Danny Z]

Will Saad ask the Lebanse to apologize to the Syrians?

Pity the average Lebanese sitting below and who voted against wilayat el fakh

[Jumpo]

وعلمت «السفير» أن الاقتراح الذي بلوره «عبدا العزيز» بن عبد الله وبن خوجة، مع القيادة السورية، تضمن مخرجا سياسيا يتمثل في قيام زعيم الأكثرية الرئيس المكلف سعد الحريري بالتوجه الى دمشق يرافقه جميع قادة الكتل والأحزاب السياسية في 14 آذار للمشاركة في استقبال العاهل السعودي الملك عبد الله لحظة وصوله الى مطار دمشق، على أن يشمل الإخراج السياسي أيضا مشاركة جميع قادة الكتل النيابية وأحزاب المعارضة في استقبال الملك السعودي.
غير أن الجانب السعودي، وبعد موافقة دمشق على الإخراج، طلب وقتا من أجل تقديم أجوبة نهائية، فكانت المفاجأة في تبلغ الرياض من حلفائها اللبنانيين، باستثناء جنبلاط، أن سعد غير جاهز وكذلك الحلفاء للذهاب الى دمشق قبل تأليف الحكومة.