Politics in the civil society: Good or bad ?

[The Jade]

For the past couple of years, politics have entered our lives in its every aspect.
Most notably in student and union elections.

It's always been politicized at a certain point, but in the past 5 years, it became more and more extreme and people concentrated on who will win the elections instead of who will do what in the elections !

Now the question here is simple: What was the plus value of a politicized civil society ?

Can someone list the achievements of the unions and student bodies who were elected under the banner of a political party ?

Can also someone show how a body that was elected under the banner of a rival political party was bad ?

For example: the dentist union has an FPMer heading it, what did this guy do (or didn't do) ?
The engineering union has a pro-loyalist dude heading it, what did this guy do (or didn't do) ?

[freedom4ever]

At the moment none of the two Opposition and loyalist cares about achieving programs, all that they care about is getting chairs and majorities.
This "Aktariye" race is becoming so silly

[Joumana Gebara]

This is such a challenging and interesting thread and although I am not able to reply to your question, I can touch the subject from my own perspective to tell you that:

- Do you realize that the civil society iss the only one able to make changes and this is not only a Lebanese experience but a world wide adoption. Our problem is that part of our civil society is funded by the ones who do not aim to help us but rather want to imply their own policy. Take for example the USaid which is infiltrated in our very own existence and infrastructure which is far more dangerous than the speeches of US delegates regarding Lebanon. This has such a great impact on our civil society jusst because it lacks the needed money and the Lebanese guiding which leads it to play the political role a foreign country wants. I really prefer Mexican interference and funding or simply a Lebanese one. I wish Saudi Arabian, Iranian, US funding is completely banned from Lebanon and would not be infiltrated through new doors by "allied countries", I hope we can rely on ourselves in the salvation of our nation with a more reduced budget but a purely Lebanese decision.

- In addition to the first point I would like to turn your attention to the fact that syndicates have turned into political rivality with a less efficient role that you cannot even call them civil societies

- Also the role of the youth in civil societies is so much a need but parties seem to attract more the public because of several factors.

- Finally you can conclude that civil socties are in general politicized, the country is a small family and everyone knows everyone here, it is hard to keep politics (politicl parties) out of it without a big will.

I may have diverted a bit from your main aim, but hope to voice my opinion in this matter, maybe some feedback woiuld even lead us to gather more information in order to build the big picture. Thanks again for raising this issue.

[SputNik]

In general having a politicized civil society is considered a healthy thing, however in a country like Lebanon it's a high risk because first politicians in Lebanon don't work by Programs, another thing which is already downgrading the society the fact that politics in Lebanon are driven by religious instincts and by permitting politics to go deeper in accessing wider range of society tasks and positions you are implanting 'Ta2ifyih el syissi' much more than your average politician would and eliminating the known equation "The right man in the right place" not doing this equation continues to ruin Government after another.

[LiNk]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

- Also the role of the youth in civil societies is so much a need but parties seem to attract more the public because of several factors.

Those several factors are, in fact, what's delaying the progress of our society.

Parties inciting on hatred, racism and intolerance are and will always be a lot more attractive to a youth that has been forged and raised on clanship and on the sole allegiance to each one's respective sect and community.

True Lebanese nationalism does not exist. Every Lebanese perceives this country as HE would like it to be, according to his own vision. Or should we say according to the collective vision his sect/community holds for it.

All we're living today is the product of our own hands, it's a never ending cycle of death matches between sick minded hordes, fighting over control of this small piece of jungle that happens to be in one rickety maze called the Middle East.

You say civil society. But I ask myself how can such a notion survive in a wild throng of uncivilized beings for whom the hate of blood brothers exceeds all possible limits in its passion and vigor.

The problem lays within the Lebanese mentality. We have a sick society, where corruption is valued as savoir-faire and trickery as smartness. Such a sick society would never generate anything other than constant instability and chaos.

This is Lebanon, and it will never change unless we have some kind of Ataturk who happens to hold some vision and manages to grab the power in order to burn down those irregular foundations on which we built what we dare calling a democracy.

But again, such a scenario seems very detached from realness. If such a man ever came to exist, he will automatically be judged and labeled accordingly. For he, like all the others, will also derive from one of the ever-popular 17 mobs.

In conclusion, this cursed piece of land is a hopeless case. The curse itself laying in its own inhabitants. And you're lacking the main resource that makes civic and social organizations functional: a mind balanced society.

[Danny Z]

If people vote for their deputies and don't know what to choose why do you think a sample of those people would vote for their syndicates and know what to choose?
el habal jame3i.

[Kurt]

This is really an interesting subject that should be discussed very often. People have been deep rooted with politics, taking the extreme, picking candidates, racing for victory, and yet not enough focus has been given to programs and the implementation of the programs since the important theme is to basically win so the winner can say at the end of the day that I made it, I am now a winner (to2 mout).

We are still relatively a backward society that cultivates on grudge and vendetta. We judge people so easily and we name them ugly names and blame them for our miseries just so they happen to have a different perspective of things or different opinion or even different understanding of issues.

But going back to the subject, candidates who are elected for the leadership level become like a “mannequin” once they are voted in and nothing else. They are basically the tools of the trade at times of need just to reach the objective/goal which is simply the victory.

I would love to see those who have won to bring forward some of their findings, breakthrough technologies, achievements and even contributions while in service. Maybe there are some who do that but it is rarely advertised where my gut check tells me that nothing significant has been accomplished while in the leadership status.

It is regretful that we raise our blood pressure and exert so much effort just to vote our candidates and reach the goal which is by simply realizing the victory but what comes after victory becomes insignificant and meaningless it seems.

Yeah, we have a long way to go still if we choose to just remain followers and cheerleaders instead of being achievers.

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Joumana Gebara

- Finally you can conclude that civil socties are in general politicized, the country is a small family and everyone knows everyone here, it is hard to keep politics (politicl parties) out of it without a big will.
.

Not only this fact, but seriously speaking our culture is (latlit) and loves to gossip. We are not per se a productive society. We like to prop our legs up high, take it real easy and enjoy life while at the same time we discuss petty politics (za3im stories) and beating those subjects to death over and over instead of discussing important issues that bring advancements to our communities and to our nation.

The bottom line, we are not a practical society and I think that we don't have the proper environment to be productive. People work short hours and those who work have acquired positions through (wasta) except the private sector which is also designed to operate in a very limited constraints unless your hands a long enough to extend beyond the limitation that the system allows you to stretch them...yi3ni shi terso

So the overall arrangement of our society is tragic and chaotic to a certain extent and it is like kil min 3m yghani 3 leileh...right?

This whole mentality of our culture must be revitalized, reinvented, transpired and refocused to issues that are productive and that are useful to mankind.

Sorry if I went off key here but the overall aspect of people behavior features a reality that is doomed to fail or for lack of a better word to stay idle while the rest of the world continues to advance ahead of us by a long shot.

I think I am trying to philosophy our way of life because it defines our lack of know-how to approach issues practically and efficiently.

In addition to civil society, we seriously need a miracle to have a structured governing system that is organized and transparent and that can allow the people to function properly.

[Anny]

Originally Posted by Kurt

Not only this fact, but seriously speaking our culture is (latlit) and loves to gossip. We are not per se a productive society. We like to prop our legs up high, take it real easy and enjoy life while at the same time we discuss petty politics (za3im stories) and beating those subjects to death over and over instead of discussing important issues that bring advancements to our communities and to our nation.

The bottom line, we are not a practical society and I think that we don't have the proper environment to be productive. People work short hours and those who work have acquired positions through (wasta) except the private sector which is also designed to operate in a very limited constraints unless your hands a long enough to extend beyond the limitation that the system allows you to stretch them...yi3ni shi terso

So the overall arrangement of our society is tragic and chaotic to a certain extent and it is like kil min 3m yghani 3 leileh...right?

This whole mentality of our culture must be revitalized, reinvented, transpired and refocused to issues that are productive and that are useful to mankind.

Sorry if I went off key here but the overall aspect of people behavior features a reality that is doomed to fail or for lack of a better word to stay idle while the rest of the world continues to advance ahead of us by a long shot.

I think I am trying to philosophy our way of life because it defines our lack of know-how to approach issues practically and efficiently.

In addition to civil society, we seriously need a miracle to have a structured governing system that is organized and transparent and that can allow the people to function properly.

I have little comment on that, maybe the other part of the world want us to be as that to stop advancing in society while at the same time they grow faster and its easier for them to take our ressources more faster dont you think?

If we advance at the same time because we are able to do so and we have proved that more outside Lebanon as Lebaneses than inside the country, how come we are not advancing in our own country since wasta is permitted by politicians and people in power. They're are no laws to protect the normal citizens who dont have wasta and remember CR block proposed laws against wasta and protection of employees that have none but some people voted for the wasta and for those who are leaving the country without any protection from the outside country specially for our water.

In the civil society, its a good thing to stay politized in my own oppinion just because at least we wont be just followers and the politicians sometimes wont have the choice but listen the citizens like in France and not like in Canada where laws pass and no one cares from the normal citizens. The only thing missing in Lebanon is that people are not united to ask laws that can protect them, if they were, belive me the system will go down for sure.

[hannaalsayssa]

there is no civil society in lebanon.

wrong heading.