Patriarch Sfeir Role in Weakening the Christians

[orange infection]

ye3neh i don't know what to say , but i think it's the best way to avoid the patriarch's impact on FPM sympathisers
for the last 4 years , our relationship with bkerki was going sometimes up and suddenly down , up and down , etc.....
aren't you tired of this ????
we don't have to make a big deal about it , just ignore the man for the upcoming 4 years and focus on your work in the parliament and media

in the last 4 years , when the monthly statements of bkerki were in our favor , we see brahim kan3an and others FPM MPs daily in bkerki , when it's in 14 march's favor we see them daily in bkerki

when we visit the patriarch and back him up , we are giving him power over us , so when he decide to make one of his questionnable statements to masira he's really hurting us , but when we cut everything we have to do with him how much damage can he do ????

we have 4 years to work , you want to win the elections , then you have to work for these 4 years , do a good job in the parliament and you will get the support you need
praising the patriarch for the next years will not get you any votes or do you any good , anything that you might gain through the patriarch you can easily lose because of the patriarch , we need stable supporters .........and you will get them by hard work

and by the way , by boycotting bkerki i am not saying that we should attack him and make a fuss about it in the media , because that wont do us any good , just work independently from the man and leave him do whatever he want , the damage is done for and 4 years is a long period , especially in a country like lebanon

[CedarLb]

Originally Posted by orange infection

ye3neh i don't know what to say , but i think it's the best way to avoid the patriarch's impact on FPM sympathisers
for the last 4 years , our relationship with bkerki was going sometimes up and suddenly down , up and down , etc.....
aren't you tired of this ????
we don't have to make a big deal about it , just ignore the man for the upcoming 4 years and focus on your work in the parliament and media

in the last 4 years , when the monthly statements of bkerki were in our favor , we see brahim kan3an and others FPM MPs daily in bkerki , when it's in 14 march's favor we see them daily in bkerki

when we visit the patriarch and back him up , we are giving him power over us , so when he decide to make one of his questionnable statements to masira he's really hurting us , but when we cut everything we have to do with him how much damage can he do ????

we have 4 years to work , you want to win the elections , then you have to work for these 4 years , do a good job in the parliament and you will get the support you need
praising the patriarch for the next years will not get you any votes or do you any good , anything that you might gain through the patriarch you can easily lose because of the patriarch , we need stable supporters .........and you will get them by hard work

and by the way , by boycotting bkerki i am not saying that we should attack him and make a fuss about it in the media , because that wont do us any good , just work independently from the man and leave him do whatever he want , the damage is done for and 4 years is a long period , especially in a country like lebanon

Isn't FPM already politically boycotting or ignoring the patriarch for quite a while now?

[lebanon4ever]

Guys,I will propose going deeper.The church is meddling within our affairs,let us meddle with hers.
I think focusing on the corruption of clergies and showing proofs to people will contribute in awakening them since some still consider clergy man as clean and knows in almost everything.
SOme people are still regarding the clergies as "SAINTS" that's why when spoken on saturday some people were mislead by the patriarch words.
I think if show them how much they are corrupted,some people wont be looking at them as idols as they are doing now.

[vicking]

We must now meddle in their affairs :

1/ They sold the "Azarieh" school to Saudi in Ashrafieh.. February 2009
2/ They sold the Nazareth couvent in MArch 2009
3/ They allowed the Mar Chaaya mountain to be used to stone extraction (les carrières)

This is OUR money, OUR donations....
Patriarch Sfeir is detroying the Christian unity, he is selling the lands to Saudi, he is spreading hate everyday, he is beiing fooled by Hariri everyday (remember the "presidential list").

We must publicly ask Bkirki WHY DID THEY SELL THESE PROPERTIES ? And ask publicly the replacement of Sfeir - because under his reign, it was the worst division of the Christian.

[Booyakasha]

No. FPM MPs, officials and leaders should stop visiting Bkerki and ALL other religious figures whether they're Maronite, Orthodox, Sunni, Chiite, Scientologist or whatever..

If someone wants to do it, do it away from the media, on a personal level.

When asked about their opinion (religious leaders) by reporters, tell them that we're talking politics and not religion or avoid the questions with a 'no comment' answer.

“Indifference may not wreck a man's life at any one turn, but it will destroy him with a kind of dry-rot in the long run” (Bliss Carman)

[Napoleaoun of koura]

Originally Posted by Leb-Can

Guys, no need to campaign against a religious leader, it backfires.
Many citizens are followers of clergymen.

So it clearly means that many citizens are idiots .... We already knew that i suppose !!!

[J. Abizeid]

Originally Posted by Dynamis

How about we start a campaign with the Pope to remove Patriarch Sfeir from his post...?

We can document and send to the Pope how he split the Christians since he took over...We have tons of evidence?

This can not be driven by FPM but by individuals like us...it has to be a grass root campaign...

Yes?

Any ideas on enumerating all his evil doings? We can start with 1989, to october 1990, all the way to today...At every step, he choose the path of splitting us...

Ideas?

Many wonder why the Batrak is hurting his own community. Is he senile, naïve or ignorant? I believe he’s neither! He’s a business man acting in the best interest of his business. How do you expect him not to react to GMA’s vision of a secular society? He rather split the Christians by controlling half of them than keeping them united and losing full control.
I’ve learned the hard way not to blame corrupt leaders anymore. They don’t come from Mars! They are the product of their own society. They do indeed represent the corrupt portion of their society. The people are the ones empowering their leaders. They may be empowering the wrong leaders because of many diverse reasons such as ignorance, bigotry, racism, greed or hypocrisy but, that’s the price societies pay for ignorance, bigotry, racism, greed and hypocrisy.
Life is fair after all. Don’t blame the leaders, blame the society itself!

[CitizenOfTheRepublic]

Guys, maybe you ought to sit down and ponder on what you want and what you can achieve with religious leaders.
Here are the options:
1- Shut them up: Unfeasible
2- Keep them unbiased: Obviously very much unfeasible
3- Bring them to your side: Too much money required. Money aside, they would want considerable power anyways.
4- Neutralize their effect: To me that sounds the most feasible of all.

I would advise a diplomatic neutralization of the clergymen:
- Give them lip service. El 7akeh bi balesh, and we don't even have to lie, just omit a few things.
- Make sure you note that they have their own opinion like any other citizen in the country and we respectfully disagree
- Like any other citizen we believe they are wrong, respectfully of course. Remind subtly of their decisions in 1990.
- Make sure you point out that they are on F14's side, put it out in the open, this way their opinion falls into the other side completely.

[Dynamis]

Originally Posted by vicking

We must now meddle in their affairs :

1/ They sold the "Azarieh" school to Saudi in Ashrafieh.. February 2009
2/ They sold the Nazareth couvent in MArch 2009
3/ They allowed the Mar Chaaya mountain to be used to stone extraction (les carrières)

This is OUR money, OUR donations....
Patriarch Sfeir is detroying the Christian unity, he is selling the lands to Saudi, he is spreading hate everyday, he is beiing fooled by Hariri everyday (remember the "presidential list").

We must publicly ask Bkirki WHY DID THEY SELL THESE PROPERTIES ? And ask publicly the replacement of Sfeir - because under his reign, it was the worst division of the Christian.

These are all grounds for dismissal in addition to meddling in politics and taking sides...

What are the next steps? How do we act on this and get the Pope to respond? I maintain this SHOULD not be an FPM effort, but a grass root effort...We need this guy out of Bkerki if Lebanon is to move forward.

[Sami.NJ]

Originally Posted by Dynamis

These are all grounds for dismissal in addition to meddling in politics and taking sides...

What are the next steps? How do we act on this and get the Pope to respond? I maintain this SHOULD not be an FPM effort, but a grass root effort...We need this guy out of Bkerki if Lebanon is to move forward.

Its either we act on removing him or we ignore him. FPM is going to be very wel-known for fighting stupid battles or half *** ones.