Next elections issues: First winners or Losers the People

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by Canadian

If I have a license to carry a weapon than I am sanctioned by the Lebanese government. Does this mean that if I kill someone by mistake or not I'm not a murderer ??

Mistake or not you said it, he's still a murderer.

I'm saying that if I am to follow your logic, we should wait for the investigation to end before throwing any accusation.

And as I said before couldn't have been a mistake ? rsassa tayché ???
From any side.

The FPM stands on principles my friend, you always tend to forget that


Already answered that before.

You keep making the same amalgam: that of a private individual and that of a fighter in a MILITARY organisation.

If an individual is allowed to carry a gun, it is only to protect himself (and self-protection is usually defined by the law), or for hunting.

If a military organisation is allowed to carry weapons for protecting the country, it is another deal. The person belonging to the organisation is not responsible, but the organisation itself is. He is a murderer only if he shot willingly at a person even after he identified the target as friendly... An investigation is needed in order to determine why that person shot at the army!

Take it like if a private security organisation made the same mistake. If a person, employed to protect a bank, shoots at someone by mistake, an investigation is need: if that person shot without following procedure, then he is guilty (murderer is only for 1st degree murders. Not 2nd degree). If he followed procedure, then it is the organisation that is in fault.

Same also for police officers. Following procedure makes a person innocent of any crime. If he shot someone in the back (not procedure), then he is guilty!

[ecce homo]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Because my beliefs go way past Michel Aoun, I believe in FPM's ideals and FPM's history.

If Michel Aoun is making mistakes I won't join the other camp as you would've wished for since anyone who criticizes Michel Aoun now is a traitor to his own kin.

These kinds of meaningless accusations of yours are what will lead the FPM to rock bottom.

FPM's ideals state that each person is free and each person is bound to its own way of thinking, and if I have a divergent opinion of Michel Aoun's strategy does this mean that I am a traitor ??

This is how people like you have been driving people away, by calling yourselves try FPMers and acting in a way that is no close to FPM's principles.

First, if you consider yourself as an FPMer then GMA is your leader, and you have to deal with it. Meaningless accusations... "sauts d'humeur" are typical use of word of anti-GMA and anti-FPM propaganda, typical l'OLJ propaganda I would say.

Second the only thing that you have done in this thread is to attack GMAs critics of the media and you are only pointing to what your opposition is doing. And I have mentoined several times that the hypocrisy of the opponents of the FPM is nothing that FPM should copy.

If you consider the l'OLJ title is no big deal then you are wrong, it is a major deal and you should be glad that you have someone as GMA who is willing to take on a fight for you to have a better media in this country. Otherwise you could continue reading this kind of nonsense where they mix facts with fiction just to steer up some sectarian tension and use it only for propaganda purpose.

You as an FPMer should ask yourself why is my leader criticising the media all the time, what should we do to rise awareness about the state of media in this country, what can we do to have an objective media and freedom of speech at the same time. And not just every time GMA says something you become all itchy and start jumping around and shouting "look what the others are doing".

You want to criticise him? You can do it as much as you want after the 2009 election that if FPM loose. Until then you are in the same boat. Constructive criticism and 200% support is the only option that you have.

[SeekNirvana]

Canadian,

In Lebanon, citizenship and partisanship cannot coexist anymore. You have to choose one.

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

First, if you consider yourself as an FPMer then GMA is your leader, and you have to deal with it. Meaningless accusations... "sauts d'humeur" are typical use of word of anti-GMA and anti-FPM propaganda, typical l'OLJ propaganda I would say.

You want to call me whatever you want FPMer or pro-FPMer, but never did I swear allegiance to anyone.
Michel Aoun is the leader of the FPM and I have the right to criticize him as much as I want.

But most of all, Michel Aoun and all FPM MPs are in their place because of me, you and other people who voted for him, so he's supposed to listen to me and not the other way round.

Second the only thing that you have done in this thread is to attack GMAs critics of the media and you are only pointing to what your opposition is doing. And I have mentoined several times that the hypocrisy of the opponents of the FPM is nothing that FPM should copy.

I'm criticizing a move that may cost us a lot of votes, thus, costing us the elections, thus making the people the first losers......

If you consider the l'OLJ title is no big deal then you are wrong, it is a major deal and you should be glad that you have someone as GMA who is willing to take on a fight for you to have a better media in this country. Otherwise you could continue reading this kind of nonsense where they mix facts with fiction just to steer up some sectarian tension and use it only for propaganda purpose.

So, after one article you saw that L'OLJ is stirring up sectarian tension, whereas Manar, NBN, Safir and Akhbar (to name a few) keep on attacking the other side sometimes attacking the sunnis directly and still you keep your mouth shut

You as an FPMer should ask yourself why is my leader criticising the media all the time, what should we do to rise awareness about the state of media in this country, what can we do to have an objective media and freedom of speech at the same time. And not just every time GMA says something you become all itchy and start jumping around and shouting "look what the others are doing".

I asked myself why he did this and realized that it's the wrong move...
Not everything Michel Aoun does is right, he's human, he makes mistakes.

You want to criticise him? You can do it as much as you want after the 2009 election that if FPM loose. Until then you are in the same boat. Constructive criticism and 200% support is the only option that you have.

No my friend, if I want to succeed in the next elections I'm gonna criticize the bad moves of the party I support.

As for constructive criticism, well, I criticized Aoun's move and gave an alternative....Yet you didn't like the alternative so you didn't deem it write to consider all this thread constructive criticism.

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by SeekNirvana

Canadian,

In Lebanon, citizenship and partisanship cannot coexist anymore. You have to choose one.

I can't choose one for now, I'm gonna need to ask MY LEADER MICHEL AOUN before I do

[vegojimbo]

Originally Posted by Canadian

So according to you, a mistake could not have happened from an LA shooter or even an LF shooter who just wanted to scare people off ?

The LA was stationed in front of Mark but the latter was shot from the back.
As for the LF shooter wanting to scare off ppl, usually one doesn't do so by firing at the back of ppl. Usually, one shoots in the air.

As for the charges, I read it a couple of months ago but can't find it anymore...and btw I don't have a record of either lying or inventing stories, so I would prefer if you not label me as such

I have not read such info, and I'm quite sure Boutros Frem was released on bail. As for me labeling u, I did no such thing, so easy on the victimization The Jade, alright?

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

The LA was stationed in front of Mark but the latter was shot from the back.
As for the LF shooter wanting to scare off ppl, usually one doesn't do so by firing at the back of ppl. Usually, one shoots in the air.

Do you genuinely ignore the word "mistake" or you're just trying to find anything to support your claim.

I have not read such info, and I'm quite sure Boutros Frem was released on bail. As for me labeling u, I did no such thing, so easy on the victimization The Jade, alright?

:)

[vegojimbo]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Do you genuinely ignore the word "mistake" or you're just trying to find anything to support your claim.

Well it seems u're the one doing the justifications and ignoring to answer ur debater's arguments. Note that not only Mark got shot, other were too (Siham for instance). There could have been "one mistake" but when the issue turns to involve several ppl, "mistake" becomes an understatement.

Anyway, the thread is not about Mark Howayek and the events of 23 January, so my involvement in this subject ends here in order not to derail ur thread off-topic.