Next elections issues: First winners or Losers the People

[ecce homo]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Sarhay,
I didn't mean that you had bad intentions but I wanted to show that the political loss for him is far from being as important than the social and economic loss of the people who are directly touched by the "sauts d'humeur" of Michel Aoun sometimes.

This mistake may have cost the couple of votes that we need to get the expected number of MPs to be able to change.

That's why he should calm down and weigh all his words.
PS: did you see the number of MPs who went to L'OLJ ?? Of course most of them are there for political purposes but this is free publicity for them and free bad publicity for us

That's not a "saut d'humeur" not the first time he accused the media, and something he talks in general terms about all the media in Lebanon, because the standard of the media in Lebanon is really low.

Only hypocrites went to L'OLJ to get free publicity. The FPM doesn't need that kind of publicity.

If you are so disappointed with GMAs politics want don't join the other camp? Or are you already in it?

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

That's not a "saut d'humeur" not the first time he accused the media, and something he talks in general terms about all the media in Lebanon, because the standard of the media in Lebanon is really low.

Only hypocrites went to L'OLJ to get free publicity. The FPM doesn't need that kind of publicity.

If you are so disappointed with GMAs politics want don't join the other camp? Or are you already in it?

Because my beliefs go way past Michel Aoun, I believe in FPM's ideals and FPM's history.

If Michel Aoun is making mistakes I won't join the other camp as you would've wished for since anyone who criticizes Michel Aoun now is a traitor to his own kin.

These kinds of meaningless accusations of yours are what will lead the FPM to rock bottom.

FPM's ideals state that each person is free and each person is bound to its own way of thinking, and if I have a divergent opinion of Michel Aoun's strategy does this mean that I am a traitor ??

This is how people like you have been driving people away, by calling yourselves try FPMers and acting in a way that is no close to FPM's principles.

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

No, I am not able to see it bc there is something called deductive reasoning which I am sure u are familiar with. Now given the list of potential shooters, scrape down those who could not have done it and post those who might have.

Now are u going to respond with more cheap shots or we're going to have a decent debate? And by the way, I am still waiting for u to prove ur claims about all charges against Boutros Frem being dropped.

So according to you, a mistake could not have happened from an LA shooter or even an LF shooter who just wanted to scare people off ?

As for the charges, I read it a couple of months ago but can't find it anymore...and btw I don't have a record of either lying or inventing stories, so I would prefer if you not label me as such

[superduper703]

I'd like chime in with 2 things:
1. FPMers are fast to accuse anybody who shows the least amount of criticism as being from "the other camp". Can't somebody have a differing opinion? That shows a lack of class and a lack of intelligence.

2. There are those who are hard-core with FPM and those who are hard-core against FPM. What FPM needs to do is work to swing the vote of those in the middle. The independent people. You do that by figuring what their needs are and then catering to those needs. Attacking the L'Orient-Le-jour for publishing an opinion piece that is shared by some of the Lebanese population is not going to endear the FPM to that population.

Elections are won by meticulous preparations and propagand, not by improvising on the fly.

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by Canadian

So according to you, a mistake could not have happened from an LA shooter or even an LF shooter who just wanted to scare people off ?

As for the charges, I read it a couple of months ago but can't find it anymore...and btw I don't have a record of either lying or inventing stories, so I would prefer if you not label me as such

Listen, don't think we don't appreciate free thinkers and self-criticism, but you are mixing many different things: first of all, FPM doesn't have media (besides OTV now). If newspapers attacked FPM's opponents we are not going to defend our opponents. The fact of the matter is, some people shot. We can easily attack those who are the most likely to have attacked us... We are not the press and we cannot be taken accountable of inciting hatred... People were there and saw the guy shoot the Marc... The fact is, people have been shooting. And back then, we knew it was only part of hate crimes, and in cold blood.

What happened recently is different. A mistake is easily possible. On the other hand, what happened in January 2007, it wasn't a "mistake"! People went down with guns!

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by dodzi

Listen, don't think we don't appreciate free thinkers and self-criticism, but you are mixing many different things: first of all, FPM doesn't have media (besides OTV now). If newspapers attacked FPM's opponents we are not going to defend our opponents.

FPM attacked L'OLJ as a matter of principle, or so do some people want to think.
I didn't hear anything from an FPM official saying that if it's incitment to hatred TOWARDS US, then it's wrong.
He said any incitment to hatred should be punished.

He also said that we have to wait for any investigation before making any move, he didn't say anything about the accusations being against the FPM and allies or any other opponent.

The fact of the matter is, some people shot. We can easily attack those who are the most likely to have attacked us... We are not the press and we cannot be taken accountable of inciting hatred...

When you make a statement you wish that it would be on all TVs and this my friend is still incitment to hatred no matter who said it (whether it's you or the press)

People were there and saw the guy shoot the Marc... The fact is, people have been shooting. And back then, we knew it was only part of hate crimes, and in cold blood.

What happened recently is different. A mistake is easily possible. On the other hand, what happened in January 2007, it wasn't a "mistake"! People went down with guns!

Of course they went down with guns, but did they do it to kill someone or just 3ared 3adalet ????

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Of course they went down with guns, but did they do it to kill someone or just 3ared 3adalet ????

When someone robs a store, there is a difference if he does it with a weapon of bare handed... If he accidentally shoots someone, it's still murder, not self-defense or "3ared 3adalet"!

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by dodzi

When someone robs a store, there is a difference if he does it with a weapon of bare handed... If he accidentally shoots someone, it's still murder, not self-defense or "3ared 3adalet"!

Of course it's still murder, I never denied that, but going to the store with a gun doesn't mean that you would want to rob the store, maybe you're taking it to your friend's place.

What I'm trying to say is that the Hezbollah fighter that shot the helicopter is a murderer.

The guy that shot Marc Howayek is a murderer.

But the point isn't here, it's that the moment Marc was shot a lot of medias rushed to say that it's an LFer who did it without waiting for any investigation as the FPM always suggests. And still no FPM official ever corrected these medias.

But when the same thing happened with Hezbollah, FPM rushed to ask for an investigation

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Of course it's still murder, I never denied that, but going to the store with a gun doesn't mean that you would want to rob the store, maybe you're taking it to your friend's place.

What I'm trying to say is that the Hezbollah fighter that shot the helicopter is a murderer.

Let's thing about this issue in a reasonable manner. If you believe Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and/or illegally armed, then you may call him a murderer.

If on the other hand, you believe he is part of "legally" approved paramilitary organization - the Resistance - then an investigation is to be awaited in order to determine the cause of why he shot at the army helicopter! The person could have easily mistaken the helicopter with an Israel one, since it was very unlikely a Lebanese helicopter would fly over the Southern territories - since Israel forbids it.

The guy that shot Marc Howayek is a murderer.

But the point isn't here, it's that the moment Marc was shot a lot of medias rushed to say that it's an LFer who did it without waiting for any investigation as the FPM always suggests. And still no FPM official ever corrected these medias.

Are you saying that it wasn't an LFer? That day things were perfectly clear: FPMers organized a strike. Angry LFers came down to the protesters and started provocating them. Some LFers were armed. An FPMer got shot...

I would find it weird if medias did not accuse LFers of having shot at Marc! Besides, it would not have been FPM's place to correct the medias. LFers are pretty strong at doing that!

But when the same thing happened with Hezbollah, FPM rushed to ask for an investigation

Officially, Hezbollah is sanctioned by the Lebanese government to bear arms to defend Lebanon. If an incident happened in the South, it could easily be a mistake. Rushing to conclusions about a Hezbollah fighter shooting on an Unknown Flighing Object, it is different than let's say, shooting ten-year-old-school-children on a drive by...

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by dodzi

Let's thing about this issue in a reasonable manner. If you believe Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and/or illegally armed, then you may call him a murderer.

If I have a license to carry a weapon than I am sanctioned by the Lebanese government. Does this mean that if I kill someone by mistake or not I'm not a murderer ??

If on the other hand, you believe he is part of "legally" approved paramilitary organization - the Resistance - then an investigation is to be awaited in order to determine the cause of why he shot at the army helicopter! The person could have easily mistaken the helicopter with an Israel one, since it was very unlikely a Lebanese helicopter would fly over the Southern territories - since Israel forbids it.

Mistake or not you said it, he's still a murderer.

Are you saying that it wasn't an LFer? That day things were perfectly clear: FPMers organized a strike. Angry LFers came down to the protesters and started provocating them. Some LFers were armed. An FPMer got shot...

I'm saying that if I am to follow your logic, we should wait for the investigation to end before throwing any accusation.

And as I said before couldn't have been a mistake ? rsassa tayché ???
From any side.

I would find it weird if medias did not accuse LFers of having shot at Marc! Besides, it would not have been FPM's place to correct the medias. LFers are pretty strong at doing that!

The FPM stands on principles my friend, you always tend to forget that

Officially, Hezbollah is sanctioned by the Lebanese government to bear arms to defend Lebanon. If an incident happened in the South, it could easily be a mistake. Rushing to conclusions about a Hezbollah fighter shooting on an Unknown Flighing Object, it is different than let's say, shooting ten-year-old-school-children on a drive by...

Already answered that before.