Monuments in Nahr el Bared

[Jean]

Originally Posted by ius

Isn't what Aoun is doing collective punishment? I am not denying Israel employs collective punishment against the Palestinians but I thought that the FPM was against that. Why should the thousands of children of the camp be living in deplorable conditions just because FPM wants to make a political point? Why isn't the FPM practicing what it preaches?

FPM is a political party, but it's concerned with non-political affairs like the environment, the history of our country including its monuments.

FPM didn't is not suing the government of Future Movement and the Lebanese Forces, it's demanding the government not to waste our heritage under ground. FPM's position would be the same whether the roman ruins where in Nahr el Bared or in downtown of Beirut.

[Abotareq93]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Kindly comment within context.

Enta bto2mor

[Ya-Shawish]

Originally Posted by ius

I agree that FPM is not responsible for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That is not the question. The question is whether it is justified to punish all the residents of the camp to make a political point?

Although I do sympathise with the refugees and I feel for their cause but by the same token the current Saudi drones with the help of their corrupted apparatus (aka the minority Christians) are collectively punishing the majority of the Lebanese. So what's your point? Are the Lebanese less important than the Palestinians? Listen bro don't get me wrong but Lebanon has paid a hefty price because of its sacrifice and will pay even dearly if this issue is not tackled. Enough blaming Aoun for the kill sherdeh wa werdeh... The excuse bank called and said that they are running out of excuses.

[ius]

Originally Posted by Ya-Shawish

Although I do sympathise with the refugees and I feel for their cause but by the same token the current Saudi drones with the help of their corrupted apparatus (aka the minority Christians) are collectively punishing the majority of the Lebanese. So what's your point? Are the Lebanese less important than the Palestinians? Listen bro don't get me wrong but Lebanon has paid a hefty price because of its sacrifice and will pay even dearly if this issue is not tackled. Enough blaming Aoun for the kill sherdeh wa werdeh... The excuse bank called and said that they are running out of excuses.

I do not think the people responding understood my point, which is quite simple:
Is collective punishment justifiable in pursuing political and national goals?

I understand that your answer is yes if these are FPM goals and no if it is anybody else's goal. Most people would not find that a convincing argument.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by ius

I do not think the people responding understood my point, which is quite simple:
Is collective punishment justifiable in pursuing political and national goals?

I understand that your answer is yes if these are FPM goals and no if it is anybody else's goal. Most people would not find that a convincing argument.

Are you on Hariri payroll?

[ius]

Originally Posted by Salome

Are you on Hariri payroll?

I wish, unfortunately he does not invest in Israel.
The first step in leaving sectarianism behind is realizing that the same standards should apply for everybody. I thought you wanted to lead the way in this?

In 20 or so years there will not be one so called Palestinian left that was not born in Lebanon. Do you really think that the fact that decades ago their ancestors came from somewhere would make them anything else than Lebanese?

Imagine the US or Australia suddenly deciding that there are not enough jobs for everybody and anyone whose parents came before 1948 had to leave. Would you think that is fair? Or that some Arabs cause terrorism so all Arab immigrants must leave.

Yes, I know all the blah-blah about how Lebanon is small and different etc. etc. But that is just double standards and sectarian.

[SamerTayyar]

Originally Posted by ius

I do not think the people responding understood my point, which is quite simple:
Is collective punishment justifiable in pursuing political and national goals?

yes, too bad there is a slight minority amongst them that didnt harbor the terrorists and create the perfect environment for them to operate freely.

Originally Posted by ius

I understand that your answer is yes if these are FPM goals and no if it is anybody else's goal. Most people would not find that a convincing argument.

no its not about FPM, I support any party that pursues this matter, but FPM
was the first one to adhere to this goal while others are busy in coming up with new empty slogans for their political survival.

[GeorgeY]

Originally Posted by ius

I wish, unfortunately he does not invest in Israel.
The first step in leaving sectarianism behind is realizing that the same standards should apply for everybody. I thought you wanted to lead the way in this?

In 20 or so years there will not be one so called Palestinian left that was not born in Lebanon. Do you really think that the fact that decades ago their ancestors came from somewhere would make them anything else than Lebanese?

Imagine the US or Australia suddenly deciding that there are not enough jobs for everybody and anyone whose parents came before 1948 had to leave. Would you think that is fair? Or that some Arabs cause terrorism so all Arab immigrants must leave.

Yes, I know all the blah-blah about how Lebanon is small and different etc. etc. But that is just double standards and sectarian.

double standards and sectarian ? r u for real?
first u kick them out of their lands and property and now u say double standards?

no my friend the standards are constant and ablicable to all "Lebanese", whatever the standards are and a "SPECIAL CASE" to palestinians since they were kicked out of their country because double-standard Jews decide to kill children after their children were killed on the hands of nazis

[Ya-Shawish]

Originally Posted by ius

I do not think the people responding understood my point, which is quite simple:
Is collective punishment justifiable in pursuing political and national goals?

I understand that your answer is yes if these are FPM goals and no if it is anybody else's goal. Most people would not find that a convincing argument.

Unfortunately the answer is YES! This answer reflects my personal belief and does not relate to any official stance of the FPM. So yes yes and sitmit yes. The goal of the FPM is to fight neutralization and I have embraced it. That Palestinians won't be humiliated more than they are whether they live in a tankeh or a condo. You need to understand that the neutralization is a serious threat to the Lebanese kayen… and by rebuilding and making the Palestinians comfortable in our land they would see no reason to go back to their homes. It’s inhuman, it’s a shame, call it whatever you want to call it but this is it. This must happen in order for us to fight neutralization and force the international community to take part of their responsibility.
My issue with you is jumping to condemn Aoun on everything without seeing beyond your nose and admit to yourself that the Palestinian problem exists and should be dealt with and that Lebanon paid more than it’s share in this mockery of your puny logics. 3eib walla 3eib…

[Venom]

How preventing to build a camp is an action against tawteen?