Michel el Murr V/S Hagop Pakradounian - Who is the liar?

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by Fedayi

Danny Z ,we still have 3 months to wait ..Until then who knows what happens?!!
And don't think that we Armenians love Michel Murr !But he backed us for 40 years ,I mean he wasn't loyal always ,but he was our only fix partner in 40 years,which is a long long time(nearly half century) .40 years of alliance can't be ruptured by a single statement from Hagop Pakradounian or Hovig Mkhitarian ...
The party is studying this case carefully .Be patient please!

I just don't see how MM backed Tashnag or how, that was my question, how he backed Tashnag? by doing what? you should have a couple of good example in 40 years.

[Fedayi]

Dude ,during the Syrian wissaye ,all the political christian groups were expelled ,except few.
In Metn ,we had no choice than allying with Murr ,unless we would have been crushed by Hariri and the Syrian intelligence .
If we were against Murr ,than he would have choose an Armenian candidate to face us ,and we would have certainly lost the elections .Plus our motto was and still will be the same ,is to have a united Armenian parliamental block !
Allying with Murr (who was not a militia leader) was an electoral garantee for Tashnak.
I hope you got my point.
Again ,I'm not defending MM ,most of us don't like the guy ,but the party has principles .
We know that GMA is more loyal than MM
We know that GMA is more popular than GMA
And we know that GMA is patriotic .
Peace

[Aoun is rou2yaweh]

Originally Posted by Fedayi

Dude ,during the Syrian wissaye ,all the political christian groups were expelled ,except few.
In Metn ,we had no choice than allying with Murr ,unless we would have been crushed by Hariri and the Syrian intelligence .
If we were against Murr ,than he would have choose an Armenian candidate to face us ,and we would have certainly lost the elections .Plus our motto was and still will be the same ,is to have a united Armenian parliamental block !
Allying with Murr (who was not a militia leader) was an electoral garantee for Tashnak.
I hope you got my point.
Again ,I'm not defending MM ,most of us don't like the guy ,but the party has principles .
We know that GMA is more loyal than MM
We know that GMA is more popular than GMA
And we know that GMA is patriotic .
Peace

Haha, yes indeed GMA can outdoo himself sometimes.

[Armenian]

Originally Posted by Danny Z

I just don't see how MM backed Tashnag or how, that was my question, how he backed Tashnag? by doing what? you should have a couple of good example in 40 years.

Thousands of Armenians, born and raised in Lebanon, became lebanese by his help.

Please don't say that he did it for us to vote for him and we are Mjansin... Never

We vote for what the party decides not MM nor anyone else in Lebanon.

If the party decides to vote for MM, then we will, if not then we won't and 95% of the 93% loyal to this party will do exactly what I am going to do.

This is called loyalty to our party
This is called loyalty to our allies
This is called loyalty to our base

Thank you

[Fedayi]

lol I meant GMA is more popular than MM .

[Leb_Rebel]

Originally Posted by x

last week michel el murr: "there are meetings and negotiations going on between tashnag and kataeb and the rest of the loyalists, and soon they will agree on everything regarding the maten and rest of the areas"

today hagop pakradounian: "there are no contacts with kataeb or any of the loyalists regarding the elections and the last time someone from tashnag met with michel el murr was more than 2 weeks ago"

awelkon michel el murr 3am byetda7ak 3al loyalists?
Or
hagop pakradounian 3am byetda7ak 3a gma and fpm and the opposition?

وهل يخف القمر

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by Fedayi

Dude ,during the Syrian wissaye ,all the political christian groups were expelled ,except few.
In Metn ,we had no choice than allying with Murr ,unless we would have been crushed by Hariri and the Syrian intelligence .
If we were against Murr ,than he would have choose an Armenian candidate to face us ,and we would have certainly lost the elections .Plus our motto was and still will be the same ,is to have a united Armenian parliamental block !
Allying with Murr (who was not a militia leader) was an electoral garantee for Tashnak.
I hope you got my point.

The point I got is that MM was blackmailing you, either vote for the list he chooses and he gives you a guy in Maten or don't ally with him and he will crush you with the Syrian boots, when the Tashnag tried to move away from the line drew by MM, K. Babikian when to jail, this is not an alliance it is called blackmail.
MM was not helping he was threatening. Now you are a free from his tyrannic control that kept you hostage for years. Still voting for him is known as the Stockholm syndrome.

[King Rami]

I'm sure, Armenians won't be voting for the ally of the one who allowed this pig:



(as a street name) to exist in tripoli...

yes, this is the bloodiest turkish (after mouhanad from nour series ) عبد الحميد الثاني the one behind the Armenian Genocide, with his cool street of Tripoli.

عرف في الغرب باسم "السلطان الأحمر" ، او "القاتل الكبير" بسبب مذابح الأرمن المزعوم وقوعها في فترة توليه منصبه.

أهيل ساحة التل في ذكرى يوم طرابلس و اطلاق اسم السلطان عبد الحميد على احدى الساحات

عدة مناسبات حميمة على قلوب الطرابلسيين احتشدت مساء الاربعاء يوم تاسيس طرابلس في 26 نيسان عام 1289 اثر تحريرها من الفرنجة على يد السلطان المنصور قلاوون ، وذكرى مرور 130 عاماً على تاسيس ساحة التل ، وافتتاح معرض ذاكرة التل 1876 – 2006 ، واطلاق الانارة الجديدة البرج لبرج الساعة الحميدية، واطلاق اسم السلطان عبد الحميد الثاني على ساحة السراي القديمة، وذلك بدعوة من لجنة الآثار والتراث في بلدية طرابلس، وبحضور ممثل الرئيس السنيورة محافظ الشمال ناصيف قالوش والنائب بدر ونوس ورئيس بلدية طرابلس المهندس رشيد الجمالي وامين الفتوى الشيخ محمد الامام ورئيس محكمة طرابلس الشرعية الشيخ مالك الشعار، وممثل مدير عام قوى الامن الداخلي اللواء اشرف ريفي العقيد فواز متري والعقيد بسام الايوبي.

كما شارك في الاحتفال السفير التركي في لبنان عرفان آجر ورئيس واعضاء بلدية امين انو التركية التوأم لمدينة طرابلس، وممثلون عن وزارتي الثقافة والاوقاف في تركيا والمؤرخ الدكتور عمر تدمري ، ورئيس جمعية طرابلس السياحية العميد سمير الشعراني وحشد من الشخصيات البلدية والثقافية والتربوية والدينية .

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by Armenian

Thousands of Armenians, born and raised in Lebanon, became lebanese by his help.

Please don't say that he did it for us to vote for him and we are Mjansin... Never

Well why did he do it then? so you vote against him? he did for you to vote for him, now whether those people deserve it or not is not why he did it, they might have deserved it even if they would not have voted for him, but again this is not an alliance this is called favoritism. If those people deserve citizenship they should get it with or without MM, if they did not deserve it then MM gave it to them just to vote for him. If Michel el Murr was not in power back then, then the people who deserve citizenship will get it bala jmiltou, instead he used his power to blackmail people into voting for him and threaten not to give them citizenship when they deserve it, again this is not an alliance it is corruption.

Originally Posted by Armenian

If the party decides to vote for MM, then we will, if not then we won't and 95% of the 93% loyal to this party will do exactly what I am going to do.

I am sure there are people who think and understand that what the party says is a suggestion, some people will vote against what the party says and parties have to understand that if they keep telling people to vote against common sense they will end up losing popular support. What if armenians scracth MM name from the list? what can Tashnag do, the most they can is expel them from the party, if all party members by conviction do not like Murr, the party will then expel all its members, what base will the party have? Parties should have public consultation to their base and do what the base says, not vice versa. That's why i need to hear from you or others who consider themselves the base to tell me why they would vote MM, other than the reason that the party said so.

Originally Posted by Armenian

This is called loyalty to our party

Parties come from the people

Originally Posted by Armenian

This is called loyalty to our allies

Blackmailers.

Originally Posted by Armenian

This is called loyalty to our base

Base tells the party what to do not vice versa.

Originally Posted by Armenian

Thank you

My pleasure

[generaltsunami]

Guys,

Pakradonian was in Canada less than a month ago. He met with us (TAYYAR) and made things very clear. We discussed the situation in Metn and he made it crystal clear that Tashnak will not leave C&R Block but will also vote Murr. He had few speeches in front of hundreds or even thousands of Armenians telling them the same thing.

As of yesterday, the Tashnak representatives in Canada were still advising their supporters to go to Lebanon and vote for C&R block plus MM.

P.S While in Canada, he did not meet with Kataeb, or any other loyalist groups.