March 8th 2005: What was your position then? What is your position now?

[orange infection]

1- What was your position in 2005 vis a vis the March 8th demonstration?

i remember that day , ken 3enna mouseba2a , some academic competition held between public high schools and keno y7etouwa at tele liban (it was my final year at school)
when we arrived at the studio we asked a man who was working there "addesh saro el ghanam ?? aktar men mouzaharit el tanen??" (because we used to netzahar every monday untill monday the 14th of march)
the man replied with a sad look at his face "adna 3a marten" and he turned the tv on to let us see
sorry if someone felt offended , that's what we thought about ppl who are going to a mouzahara for nothing but to offend ppl demanding syria to get the hell out of lebanon


2- What is your position in 2009, towards the March 8th demonstration?

pretty much the same , fi nes from both sides , ma 3endoun shi , just wait for a signal from your leader and they will go yetzaharo even if it's to make tom give a chunk of cheese to jerry


3- What did you, in 2005, think of the parties that participated on March 8th, 2005 in the demonstration? What do you think of them now, in 2009?

the same , to be honest i didn't knew that marada participated in that disgrace , but later when i knew , i added marada to the black list :P
for me marada is not different from SSNP or HA or medri min , even if they are from the same religion


4- What was, in your opinion, the real objective of March 8th, 2005? What do you think of it now, looking back?

the real objective.......ye3neh i don't buy this thank you syria thing
if they wanted to thank syriia ken fiyoun ma ya3emlo el mouzahara in that timing , we felt like 3am yet7addouna
6- For FPMers, on March 8th, 2005 you totally opposed this demonstration, now you ally with many of its factions, what has changed in your view of them (please give your opinion on all March 8th parties except for HA whose alliance with FPM is based on a clear MoU)?
it didn't change my view

8- Is it, in your opinion, acceptable to demonstrate for thanking an occupier? If not, do you think the March 8th factions owe the Lebanese people an apology on that demonstration?

i don't think they must apologize , and i don't think they will even if we asked to :P
anyway ossa w mara2it , we have more important issues to solve , but their look back at 8 march is printed in many ppl memories.......

9- Many people state that the March 8th parties are very honest, because they were Syria's allies from 1990-2005 and they REMAINED Syrian allies after 2005, unlike FM, PSP etc. Do you think that these parties still believe in the objectives that they had on March 8th, 2005? How did their opinion evolve?

i don't even believe that thank you syria thing , but i was happy later with the things HA signed in the mou (except for ossit sle7 HA of course)

10- Looking back now to 2005, was asking for the resignation of the March 8th government of Karame back then, a mistake? This question is mainly for FPMers, because at this point, most of the Ministers of that government are now FPM allies (Karame, Frangieh, Wahhab, Arslan, etc), hence, do you think that FPM's position in 2005, asking for the resignation of Karame, was a mistake or not?

no of course karame ken lezem yesta2il ....that was just the right thing to do
of course back then we didn't knew that the next interior minister will be hasan el sabe3 and the other interior minister in karame's government SF will one day become our ally

[dodzi]

Originally Posted by hhhh23

Well, I mean allying with SSNP for example is against FPM's stances, regardless of their popularity. Having Wahhab or similar figures on an FPM list is also against anything that FPM stands for, this is the part I am referring to. Even Karame, how can FPM accept to be on the same list with him? The point is that, it is understandable that FPM, if it wants to take some majority vs. 14 Feb, they need HA's MPs, but do they really need the others ?

One point is that, it is true that all parties have blood or corruption on their hands, but FPM wants to fight corruption and they can do so by alienating a large number of the parties that have blood/corruption on their hands, but they chose only a few. In other words, FPM, can run on its own as a party, allied with HA, with no need to accept any of the other factions of March 8th. By doing so, FPM would be fighting 90% of corruption (14 Feb + March 8 - HA), and would be standing up better to its values, at least, thats how I see it.

I don't remember being allied to SSNP. SSNP voted and supported FPM perhaps, but Aoun clearly said that an alliance with SSNP was out of the question "because they killed Bashir Gemayel". While I disagree with the reason behind his refusal to ally with them, I don't see how SSNP is worse than Kataeb and co. All did what they did. SSNP has a dirty record, but so do the others. Besides, you are wrong saying we are allied to them, so I don't need to discuss things further... I just wonder if you are saying that it is against nature because SSNP is "Syrian". I beg to differ. It is a Lebanese party with a Nationalistic ideology that is not Lebanon. Who can discuss that. While I don't like the party as such, I do not disagree with their ideas about a greater Syria. It's like saying De Gaulle was a nazi for agreeing with the continuation of the EEC...

As for Karame and co., I agree with you. But I disagree with you saying that we have to/can win by allying only with HA. The fact of the matter is we can't! Allying with corrupt politicians is a must. We can only do our best to implement our program! If we don't make such alliances, we lose. And I'd rather have half the government clean than have it all corrupt! If we lead the next government, it will include Berri, Arslan, Karame perhaps... They are not our choice, but we have to abide with our alliances...

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by X

I was against March 8 demonstration and raising Syrian flags and chanting pro Syrian slogans, now it has no meaning anymore because Syria in the end was defeated and left Lebanon.

March 8 and the things that were said in it is equal to (better say much less than) what Jomblat and Hariri and all their teams used to say about Syria one month before March 8.

In the March 8 thread you said HA is a state by it self in Lebanon, what made you change your mind?

[Red Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Saladin

In the March 8 thread you said HA is a state by it self in Lebanon, what made you change your mind?

for me, in 8march 2005 i had question marks about the mini state of HA, now in 2009 i have more questions about the harriri/jumblat mini states that popped up instead and less questions about the HA situation that remained under control.

u guys got only urselves to blame if i don't feel anything for u nor ur policies any more.

as they say, i don't take kindly to backstabbers, liars, thiefs and sycophants, which is exactly what the politicians of 14 march are.

tell me about the tarik al jadideh tigers b4 u ask me about hizbullah.
and who the hell is sa3doon harriri to meddle inside christian street politics?
no i dont take kindly to that.

i personally wanted to see the situation become more manageable and that's why i support fpm's actions, all the 14march leaders did was make it a lot worse and march14 materialized the fear i had thought would come from 8march.

surprise surprise..

[Qwiw]

March 8 and March 14 are united now.

Everyone has his own opinion but the fact is here: the MoU clarified the positions of the 2 groups. March 14 was aimed at liberrating Lebanon from Syrian troops and not eliminating Syria outside Lebanon. And March 8 was not aimed at asking Syria to stay in Lebanon, nor coming back, nor even islamize Lebanon.

Things are clear 4 years after those historical events. The basis and hardcores of those 2 movements proved that their goal was the good of Lebanon.

[J.Hanna]

Originally Posted by Red Phoenix

8 march was a mistake, 14march followed it by another mistake.

i was part of the second mistake, if i knew how 14march would be abused i would have not gone there to start with. i went down there with patriotic ideals (pro fpm), i went back home and heard bahia harriri shoeshinning syria (which was still occupying us that same freaking day!) i knew from then on that the march i went to isn't exactly what i supposed it to be.
it was to be used as a scam internally and externally.
everybody must have been smoking some pot that day.
it was a big mess of a day as march8 was.
ppl still delude themselves about those two marches.

me, i just want a refund hehe

How can you say that? You honestly believe March 14, 2005 was a mistake? What would Lebanon look like if it wasn't for that day? There would be a March 8 wu bass, Syria would still be here harassing and kidnapping us Lebanese. If it wasn't for that revolution that happened on that day by all of us, we'd still be under the Syrian boots. Regardless of our current political differences, March 14, 2005 was necessary for Lebanon's freedom, sovereignty, and independence and you know that.

[X]

Originally Posted by J.Hanna

How can you say that? You honestly believe March 14, 2005 was a mistake? What would Lebanon look like if it wasn't for that day? There would be a March 8 wu bass, Syria would still be here harassing and kidnapping us Lebanese. If it wasn't for that revolution that happened on that day by all of us, we'd still be under the Syrian boots. Regardless of our current political differences, March 14, 2005 was necessary for Lebanon's freedom, sovereignty, and independence and you know that.

March 14 was a historical day, but saying that Syria left because of March 14 day is ridiculous.

Before March 14 2005, there was a huge movement that started long before 2005 and this movement achieved a lot both locally and internationally, Syria had one foot outside Lebanon by 2005 and the only thing that was achieved on March 14 was it made the withdrawal move faster.

Go read the history my friend, there was life on planet Earth before February 14 2005.

[Red Phoenix]

Originally Posted by J.Hanna

How can you say that? You honestly believe March 14, 2005 was a mistake? What would Lebanon look like if it wasn't for that day? There would be a March 8 wu bass, Syria would still be here harassing and kidnapping us Lebanese. If it wasn't for that revolution that happened on that day by all of us, we'd still be under the Syrian boots. Regardless of our current political differences, March 14, 2005 was necessary for Lebanon's freedom, sovereignty, and independence and you know that.

not quite, we were duped, we were high, and we had different visions of what we thought we were achieving.

i find myself disillusioned now by 14march, i went down for my independence but that event was used to steal from me that independence, again.

looking back in retrospect, syria was already leaving and i went down to protest with the wrong crowd.

independence is not a tv fabrication for me post 2005, it is a real thing.

i have nothing in common no more with an event that ushered in the usa/ksa era of lebanon after the syrians left.

simple as that.

as far as i am concerned, u guys are stilled duped by it or duping urself.
but i'm out.

that day had nothing to do with freedom nor independence nor ballout.

the cheap bashing political orgy we witnessed each year to commemorate that event proved my point.

[J.Hanna]

Originally Posted by X

March 14 was a historical day, but saying that Syria left because of March 14 day is ridiculous.

Before March 14 2005, there was a huge movement that started long before 2005 and this movement achieved a lot both locally and internationally, Syria had one foot outside Lebanon by 2005 and the only thing that was achieved on March 14 was it made the withdrawal move faster.

Go read the history my friend, there was life on planet Earth before February 14 2005.

Yes there was a movement, there was international pressure building, 1559, small rallies here and there, etc.. But March 14, 2005 was the final boot that kicked the Syrians out. Do not deny history just because the future did not turn the way you expected.


And if you really believe that day had nothing to do with the Syrian withdrawal how come they didn't leave sooner?

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by J.Hanna

Yes there was a movement, there was international pressure building, 1559, small rallies here and there, etc.. But March 14, 2005 was the final boot that kicked the Syrians out. Do not deny history just because the future did not turn the way you expected.


And if you really believe that day had nothing to do with the Syrian withdrawal how come they didn't leave sooner?

March 14 was the beginning, yes you are right ---March 14, 1989.

The Syrians had left Beirut months earlier than March 14, 2005, pressure kept mounting they were already dismantling their caserns to leave indefinitely. Their proxies in Lebanon were the ones controling the crouds and they started losing control when the syrians left, a couple of days before march 14 security apparatus in fact tried closing roads to stop marches but some army officers were letting people in, the chain of commands started to break, in fact once the syrians, their proxies were thrown in jail and they are still in jail up until today on no charges, March 14 was a hawbara that is replaced since 2006 by February 14, they go every year walk malyoun w noss ta7t el shiti and chant ma7kama, ma7kama.