Liberty Front for the end of the armed & non armed palestinian presence in Lebanon

[>Watani<]

Originally Posted by Bejin

I think as Aoun said for the naturalizations of 1994/95, the issue of palestinians married to lebanese should be checked case by case. Don't you think? Because, i am afraid of abuse...

lebanese law: men give wives, children his nationality, for sure it goes to the palestinian women who married to lebanese

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by >Watani<

lebanese law: men give wives, children his nationality, for sure it goes to the palestinian women who married to lebanese

yes but i understood his question as: if the palestinian men married to lebanese and i replied according to this issue, not yours which is, like you said, under the lebanese jurisdiction.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Bejin

I think as Aoun said for the naturalizations of 1994/95, the issue of palestinians married to lebanese should be checked case by case. Don't you think? Because, i am afraid of abuse...

That's not the issue.

The lebanese law allows what Watani specified earlier and more.

But the international law that Jebha put forward and wants applied,allows even much more than the Lebanese law.

Yes it's true that it allows Palestinians in Lebanon to re-group and join their families abroad.

But it also allows Palestinians abroad to re-group and join their (Lebanese) families in Lebanon.Not to mention that it seals the right for a nationality to each Palestinian who is married to a Lebanese and have kids in Lebanon.

It gives the right for nationality for the man,the woman,and the children...depending on the situation.

Did Jebha think of that?

If yes,then what's its official position?

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

That's not the issue.

The lebanese law allows what Watani specified earlier and more.

But the international law that Jebha put forward and wants applied,allows even much more than the Lebanese law.

Yes it's true that it allows Palestinians in Lebanon to re-group and join their families abroad.

But it also allows Palestinians abroad to re-group and join their (Lebanese) families in Lebanon.Not to mention that it seals the right for a nationality to each Palestinian who is married to a Lebanese and have kids in Lebanon.

It gives the right for nationality for the man,the woman,and the children...depending on the situation.

Did Jebha think of that?

If yes,then what's its official position?

If you are Lebanese, you should have the same rights than all the Lebanese in Lebanon. If you are non-Lebanese, you should have the same rights than all the non-Lebanese in Lebanon. Moreover, don't forget the Lebanese abroad who have not the Lebanese nationality...

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Bejin

If you are Lebanese, you should have the same rights than all the Lebanese. If you are non-Lebanese, you should have the same rights than all the non-Lebanese in Lebanon. Moreover, don't forget the Lebanese abroad who have not the Lebanese nationality...

Bejin,stop turning around the subject please.Let me give you an example of familly re-grouping.

You are a Palestinian living abroad,(or in Lebanon for that matter),and you are married with a Lebanese woman and have 10 children from her,who are born in Lebanon and have lived all their life in Lebanon and do not know anything else than Lebanon.

According to the international law that Jebha put forward,they have the right to live with their mother and have her nationality(which is still not what the Lebanese code of nationality allows,but should IMHO)

And also according to the international law that Jebha put forward,the Palestinian father has the right to join his family and live with it,and ask for the same nationality.

Did Jebha see this international law from that angle?

If yes,then what's its official position?

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Bejin,stop turning around the subject please.Let me give you an example of familly re-grouping.

You are a Palestinian living abroad,(or in Lebanon for that matter),and you are married with a Lebanese woman and have 10 children from her,who are born in Lebanon and have lived all their life in Lebanon and do not know anything else than Lebanon.

According to the international law that Jebha put forward,they have the right to live with their mother and have her nationality(which is still not what the Lebanese code of nationality allows,but should IMHO)

And also according to the international law that Jebha put forward,the Palestinian father has the right to join his family and live with it,and ask for the same nationality.

Did Jebha see this international law from that angle?

If yes,then what's its official position?

The Lebanese Constitution says in its preamble: "Lebanon is also a founding and active member of the United Nations Organization and abides by its covenants and by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights."

However, the Lebanese code of nationality does not allow the foreign husband of a Lebanese woman and their children to be Lebanese.

The Liberty Front did its proposal on the Palestinians issue in the framework of the jurisdiction existing in Lebanon (Constitution and code).

Modifying the Constitution or the code are other issues.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Bejin

The Liberty Front did its proposal on the Palestinians issue in the framework of the jurisdiction existing in Lebanon (Constitution and code).

Modifying the Constitution or the code are other issues.

This is international law that Jebha is taliking about and putting forward.Read again please.

ان تطبيق لمّ الشمل العائلي الذي كرسه الاعلان العالمي لحقوق الانسان يتيح لـ25% من الفلسطينيين المقيمين في لبنان الانضمام الى عائلاتهم في المهجر ولا سيما في الدول العربية.

But in a way,you are right,since this part of international law is also part of our constitution,since the international declaration of human rights is part of our constitution.

So no need to modify anything.

Anyway,you're still evading the subject,since i'm not interested in defining the legal nature and jurisdiction of the principles that Jebha wants applied.

What interest me is to point out that those specific principles work both ways:They maybe allow 25% of Palestinians of legally joining their families outside Lebanon.

But they also allow as much,if not more,to legally join their families inside Lebanon...Not to mention the number of those who should instantly get the nationality,according to those same principles that Jebha is putting forward.

So what's Jebha's position?

[Bejin]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

But they also allow as much,if not more,to legally join their families inside Lebanon...Not to mention the number of those who should instantly get the nationality,according to those same principles that Jebha is putting forward.

The Lebanese Constitution says in its preamble: "Lebanon is also a founding and active member of the United Nations Organization and abides by its covenants and by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights."

However, the Lebanese code of nationality does not allow the foreign husband of a Lebanese woman and their children to be Lebanese.

So, the jurisdiction is clear no matter if we are ok or if we want to modify it. So, no your principle can not be applied. But Liberty Front proposal can be applied.

The Liberty Front did its proposal on the Palestinians issue in the framework of the jurisdiction existing in Lebanon (Constitution and code).

Modifying the Constitution or the code are other issues.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by Bejin

The Lebanese Constitution says in its preamble: "Lebanon is also a founding and active member of the United Nations Organization and abides by its covenants and by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights."

However, the Lebanese code of nationality does not allow the foreign husband of a Lebanese woman and their children to be Lebanese.

So, the jurisdiction is clear no matter if we are ok or if we want to modify it.

The Liberty Front did its proposal on the Palestinians issue in the framework of the jurisdiction existing in Lebanon (Constitution and code).

Modifying the Constitution or the code are other issues.

Habibeh Bejin,

You keep turning around and evading the subject.For the last time i will ask you this:

What Jebha put forward as a proposal,is a legal framework that works in many ways.

In some ways it allows some Palestinians to leave,and in other ways it allows some Palestinians to stay.

FAN only highlighted one side of this legal framework and omitted the other side.

Did he do that on purpose?Was that omission due to ignorance or hypocrisy?

[Bejin]

FAN only highlighted one side of this legal framework and omitted the other side.

The Liberty Front omit the other side because the Lebanese code is clear about it. So, it is neither ignorance nor hypocrisy, it is jurisdiction!