LF and Kataeb recruiting: is it a zero-sum game?

[Abou Sandal]

Maybe i'm missing something,but do Kataeb or LF,have a political program?

Because i never saw them proposing anything but slogans and more slogans.

[Stonecold]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Maybe i'm missing something,but do Kataeb or LF,have a political program?

Because i never saw them proposing anything but slogans and more slogans.

suureeee kataeb's political program is to keep the hands of gemayel familia on the party walaw the is the grossery they r living from and samsoum must become an MP walaw he is a gemayel 7a22 sha3re

as for the lf they r defending the "2adiye ya shabeb" never forget the 2adiye ya shabeb

they always have and ADIYE to defend first it was against the palestinians then the syrians
then the muslims
then fouad abou nader and fady frem
then elie hobeika
then Amin Gemayel during his presidency
then a christian state and 7alet 7atman
then GMA
then ta2ef agreement
then dany chamoun
then elias l zeyik
then Kata2eb party and georges s3ade

and in the end 83444585738375345738457358 the 7AKIKA LI AJLI LOUBNAN
they must know who killed al shahid

there are always an adiye to defend ya shabeb never forget the adiye

they r here to stay and the comedy show must go on

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by ElieCedar

Respectfully, None of the replies seem to know much about some of the key differences between the LF and Kateab parties. The key common denominator between them is BG, and after BG's death they each took a different path. Having being raised in a Chamounist home, many like me where attracted to serve in the LF for the ideals, discipline, political project, and commitment to the cause and our Christian martyrs.

But of course, you don't need to listen to me. I have only spent 25 years in serving the LF. There are better sources on this forum/thread, many of them are Marada and Hizbullah supporters...they should know more because they have Lebanon's interest at heart (wink)!!!
Elie

Elie,

I have grown to appreciate your forum company more and more, as one usually does with any person one repeatedly interacts with in a respectful manner, and as time goes by.. Permit me therefore to address you with an open heart on this issue: LF and Kataeb are good examples of how to parasite on a dead cause. If you feel I owe you an explanation, just ask.

[ElieCedar]

Originally Posted by taifoon

Elie,

I have grown to appreciate your forum company more and more, as one usually does with any person one repeatedly interacts with in a respectful manner, and as time goes by.. Permit me therefore to address you with an open heart on this issue: LF and Kataeb are good examples of how to parasite on a dead cause. If you feel I owe you an explanation, just ask.

Taifoon... the cause will be dead when we stop working for it. That hasn't happened yet. We are married to the cause. Some have abused their position in the name of the cause, some have betrayed the cause, but many have died for the cause, and for those martyrs we continue to work so that at the end we have a country our children can call Home. No one should criticize us for not trying.
Elie

[taifoon]

Originally Posted by ElieCedar

Taifoon... the cause will be dead when we stop working for it. That hasn't happened yet. We are married to the cause. Some have abused their position in the name of the cause, some have betrayed the cause, but many have died for the cause, and for those martyrs we continue to work so that at the end we have a country our children can call Home. No one should criticize us for not trying.
Elie

Elie,

Taef, which you agreed on, sealed off the political status of the christians. The armed foreign and direct threats to the christians, which the palestinians and syrians constituted, have ceased to exist.

Your party is allied to muslims, both Jumblat and Hariri, and therefore federalism can not be anymore, or at least for the time being, a political issue LF can parade with in public.

What I see is left of the cause is fearing to be deluted by FPM, thereof the aggressive desperate attempts to discredit it at any cost, through attacking and discrediting Hizballah. The same Hizballah you allied to in the last elections.. Am I wrong? Please do correct me. What is LF cause?

[roch10452]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

Maybe i'm missing something,but do Kataeb or LF,have a political program?

Because i never saw them proposing anything but slogans and more slogans.

The belief that the individual is intrinsically valuable and that people are born equal and die equal, having equal rights, freedom, and dignity, and being able to differ in opinions, orientations and beliefs.

Its commitment to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and to all pertinent international charters and conventions, whose values and principles will act as guidelines to the Party’s goals and programs.

Its intransigence in the belief that Lebanon is a sovereign, free and independent entity founded on a social pact sanctioned by the free will of its people.

Its assertion that Lebanon is a distinctive human experience by virtue of its pluralism, intellectual interaction and openness to civilizations, and due to its pioneering democratic experience in the Arab world.

Its abidance by the Lebanese Constitution as a charter of governance in Lebanon, in its practice, interpretation, and ratification.

Its adherence to the openness of Lebanon to and its interaction with its Arab surroundings and the world, in such a way as not to conflict with the national belonging and provided that the Lebanese will be a dimension of Lebanon in foreign countries and not a foreign dimension within Lebanon.

Its conviction that men and women are equal in rights and obligations, since women are fundamental partners in the building of the society and in the making of the political decision.


Guaranty the sovereignty of the Lebanese state and its independence and to safeguard its existence.

Build a nation of law based on equality, justice, social solidarity, equal opportunities and the upholding of a fair judicial system, since the latter is a true and impartial criterion for the consolidation of justice and democracy.

Establish democracy as a system of government and a way of life by guaranteeing the respect of freedoms and basic rights of the citizen.

Institute a culture of citizenship in the aim of achieving equality between the Lebanese.

Protect the family because it is the nucleus in the building of a society and a nation.

Eliminate all legal and social distinctions between men and women and promote equality through practice on the basis of competence and aptitude.

Persevere in supporting the youth and promote their role in developing the society and in stimulating political life.

Enable the Lebanese Diaspora to exercise their political rights in Lebanon from their countries of expansion and strengthen the bond among them and between them and their motherland.

Disseminate a political culture that liberates the Lebanese from a mentality of tutelage and supplication and develop their sense of critique.

Adhere to the free economic system and personal initiative within the boundaries of human dignity and the welfare and principles of social justice.

Promote institutional functions on the basis of competence and the implementation of the principal of liability and accountability.

Protect and Preserve the environmental resources for a healthy environment is a natural and intrinsic human right and a part of human existence.

Make education available to all Lebanese, propagate Lebanese heritage, develop all sectors and encourage the mastering of skills, sciences and arts in such a way as to cater to the needs of the society and the requirements of the age.

Propagate the culture of peace, dialogue and democracy.

[Dark Angel]

Originally Posted by roch10452

The belief that the individual is intrinsically valuable and that people are born equal and die equal, having equal rights, freedom, and dignity, and being able to differ in opinions, orientations and beliefs.

Its commitment to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and to all pertinent international charters and conventions, whose values and principles will act as guidelines to the Party’s goals and programs.

Its intransigence in the belief that Lebanon is a sovereign, free and independent entity founded on a social pact sanctioned by the free will of its people.

Its assertion that Lebanon is a distinctive human experience by virtue of its pluralism, intellectual interaction and openness to civilizations, and due to its pioneering democratic experience in the Arab world.

Its abidance by the Lebanese Constitution as a charter of governance in Lebanon, in its practice, interpretation, and ratification.

Its adherence to the openness of Lebanon to and its interaction with its Arab surroundings and the world, in such a way as not to conflict with the national belonging and provided that the Lebanese will be a dimension of Lebanon in foreign countries and not a foreign dimension within Lebanon.

Its conviction that men and women are equal in rights and obligations, since women are fundamental partners in the building of the society and in the making of the political decision.


Guaranty the sovereignty of the Lebanese state and its independence and to safeguard its existence.

Build a nation of law based on equality, justice, social solidarity, equal opportunities and the upholding of a fair judicial system, since the latter is a true and impartial criterion for the consolidation of justice and democracy.

Establish democracy as a system of government and a way of life by guaranteeing the respect of freedoms and basic rights of the citizen.

Institute a culture of citizenship in the aim of achieving equality between the Lebanese.

Protect the family because it is the nucleus in the building of a society and a nation.

Eliminate all legal and social distinctions between men and women and promote equality through practice on the basis of competence and aptitude.

Persevere in supporting the youth and promote their role in developing the society and in stimulating political life.

Enable the Lebanese Diaspora to exercise their political rights in Lebanon from their countries of expansion and strengthen the bond among them and between them and their motherland.

Disseminate a political culture that liberates the Lebanese from a mentality of tutelage and supplication and develop their sense of critique.

Adhere to the free economic system and personal initiative within the boundaries of human dignity and the welfare and principles of social justice.

Promote institutional functions on the basis of competence and the implementation of the principal of liability and accountability.

Protect and Preserve the environmental resources for a healthy environment is a natural and intrinsic human right and a part of human existence.

Make education available to all Lebanese, propagate Lebanese heritage, develop all sectors and encourage the mastering of skills, sciences and arts in such a way as to cater to the needs of the society and the requirements of the age.

Propagate the culture of peace, dialogue and democracy.

LOL you coppied the FPM charter word by word, bravo!!

Originally Posted by >Watani<

The Free Patriotic Movement (FPM) is a continuity of the Lebanese state of mind that started with the struggle of General Aoun and his period in office in the late eighties.

In the late 80s, counting on the Lebanese refusal of foreign interference in Lebanese affairs, FPM has opposed, both locally and in international venues through the Lebanese Diaspora, the foreign hegemony over Lebanon. FPM presented many sacrifices defending the freedom, sovereignty, and independence of Lebanon and the dignity of its people. FPM was a leader in its courageous and human struggle.

FPM, the political party, looks forward to renew the political life in Lebanon, based on knowledge, moral values, progressivism and freedom of the Lebanese. FPM will work under the theme of Change and Reform based on the following:


In the principles, FPM asserts:

1- Its belief that the individual is a value by him(her)self and that humans are born equal and die equally. They live benefiting from rights and freedoms and dignity, and are free to differ in opinions, visions and beliefs.

2- Its adoption of the international human rights charter and all the treaties related to it. The values and principles in these charters and treaties drive the program and objectives of the party.

3- Its stress that Lebanon is a free, independent and sovereign entity governed by a social contract agreed upon by its citizens.

4- Its stress that Lebanon is a humane choice for its diversity and ideological interaction and openness towards civilizations as well as its pioneering experience in democracy in the Arab world.

5- Its respect for the Lebanese constitution in its application, explanation and rectification.

6- Its stress on the openness of Lebanon to its Arab surrounding and to the world in a way to keep the priority to the national belonging. The party sees the necessity for the Lebanese to be a Lebanese interest in the world, rather than a foreign interest inside Lebanon.

7- Its belief in equality between women and men in rights and obligations since the Woman is a basic partner in building society and developing political decision.

In the objectives, FPM looks forward to:

1- Guaranteeing the sovereignty, independence and continuity of the Lebanese republic

2- Building the just state based on rules of equality, justice, social justice and equal opportunity. FPM also looks forward to preserving the judicial system fair since it is the true objective parameter to enforce justice and democracy.

3- Insisting on democracy as governance system and way of life that guarantees the respect of citizens' basic freedoms and rights.

4- Educating society on the meaning of civic duties to establish equality between Lebanese, and to put in place an optional civil personal status law, and to dissociate political activity from religion seeking a secular country.

5- Protecting the family as it is the basic cell in building society and the country.

6- Removing the legal and social discrepancies between women and men and enhance equality by practice based on skill.

7- Providing tireless support to the youth and enhancing their role in developing society and activating political life.

8- Allowing the Lebanese Diaspora to practice their political rights in Lebanon from their country of residence, and to strengthen ties among them and between them and their motherland.

9- Propagating a political culture that liberates Lebanese from tribalism and pushes them towards critical thinking.

10- Retaining its belief in a free market and individual initiative within the limits of respecting human rights and social justice.

11- Enhancing institutions by insisting on the use of skills to differentiate candidates and on the principle of accountability.

12- Preserving a sane environment since it is a natural right for humans.

13- Making education and schooling available for all Lebanese, and promoting Lebanese culture and develop all sectors and encouraging the learning of skill trades, science and arts, based on needs of society.

14- Promoting a culture of peace, dialogue and democracy.

[Abou Sandal]

Originally Posted by roch10452

The belief that the individual is intrinsically valuable and that people are born equal and die equal, having equal rights, freedom, and dignity, and being able to differ in opinions, orientations and beliefs.

Its commitment to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and to all pertinent international charters and conventions, whose values and principles will act as guidelines to the Party’s goals and programs.

Its intransigence in the belief that Lebanon is a sovereign, free and independent entity founded on a social pact sanctioned by the free will of its people.

Its assertion that Lebanon is a distinctive human experience by virtue of its pluralism, intellectual interaction and openness to civilizations, and due to its pioneering democratic experience in the Arab world.

Its abidance by the Lebanese Constitution as a charter of governance in Lebanon, in its practice, interpretation, and ratification.

Its adherence to the openness of Lebanon to and its interaction with its Arab surroundings and the world, in such a way as not to conflict with the national belonging and provided that the Lebanese will be a dimension of Lebanon in foreign countries and not a foreign dimension within Lebanon.

Its conviction that men and women are equal in rights and obligations, since women are fundamental partners in the building of the society and in the making of the political decision.


Guaranty the sovereignty of the Lebanese state and its independence and to safeguard its existence.

Build a nation of law based on equality, justice, social solidarity, equal opportunities and the upholding of a fair judicial system, since the latter is a true and impartial criterion for the consolidation of justice and democracy.

Establish democracy as a system of government and a way of life by guaranteeing the respect of freedoms and basic rights of the citizen.

Institute a culture of citizenship in the aim of achieving equality between the Lebanese.

Protect the family because it is the nucleus in the building of a society and a nation.

Eliminate all legal and social distinctions between men and women and promote equality through practice on the basis of competence and aptitude.

Persevere in supporting the youth and promote their role in developing the society and in stimulating political life.

Enable the Lebanese Diaspora to exercise their political rights in Lebanon from their countries of expansion and strengthen the bond among them and between them and their motherland.

Disseminate a political culture that liberates the Lebanese from a mentality of tutelage and supplication and develop their sense of critique.

Adhere to the free economic system and personal initiative within the boundaries of human dignity and the welfare and principles of social justice.

Promote institutional functions on the basis of competence and the implementation of the principal of liability and accountability.

Protect and Preserve the environmental resources for a healthy environment is a natural and intrinsic human right and a part of human existence.

Make education available to all Lebanese, propagate Lebanese heritage, develop all sectors and encourage the mastering of skills, sciences and arts in such a way as to cater to the needs of the society and the requirements of the age.

Propagate the culture of peace, dialogue and democracy.

You exceeded yourself here.But somehow,gave a very accurate image of Kataeb and LF.

Not by the content,of course.

But then,and in answer to my question,and since you are talented at copy/pasting,I would have preferred if you had copied FPM's political program,instead of copying FPM's charter.

Ifless Bi Ifless.

[LebanonUSA]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

... both parties have chosen to continue working democratically as two separate entities.

Democratically? Seriously? What's democratic in the LF? The numerous coups conducted by Geagea to reach the top, or the numerous internal assassinations/executions done by Geagea to ensure he stays at the top of the LF pyramid? What happened to Toufic el Hindi?

Same BS with Kataeb, except that Amine inherited the party from his dad, with a few years when the Kataeb was hijacked by the Syrians (Georges Saadeh, Karim Bakradoni).

[roch10452]

Originally Posted by Abou Sandal

You exceeded yourself here.But somehow,gave a very accurate image of Kataeb and LF.

Not by the content,of course.

But then,and in answer to my question,and since you are talented at copy/pasting,I would have preferred if you had copied FPM's political program,instead of copying FPM's charter.

Ifless Bi Ifless.

You didnt get my point

Our Principles are the same
Our Goals are the same
We dont want things different then you do
we want to live here in peace and dignity

what differs is that you beleive the Hezbo way will get us this
we beleive the economic way and the international relations will get us this

your plan is based on constant war and terror, might work, it worked for 50 years between the USA and USSR
but we are not into loosing 1500 lives every 2 years, we want to try the europeen way, a none war addicted people, working for a strong economy and making the life of their citizen better