Lessons Learned

[spacecreature]

Originally Posted by KingNothing

On the expense of sounding harsh, I have to say my opinion. I personally didn't vote and if I Did I would have selected few of 14 march ( would have never voted full list) and not a single one of m8.


B- ha weapons. I would never vote for someonewho choses to keep us in a constant state of war.

It's funny you say that, as if you didn't know the nature of Israel. Do you think FPM enjoys wars?? It was actually trying to find a solution to a problem not creating it. So it is unfair for you to say that..Anyway I have noticed that most Lebanese (I am hoping you are not like that!) only care for things that affect them directly and personally. Maybe if you lived in the south, had your land occupied for a few centuries or bombed down, killing your family on the way, then maybe you will have a different opinion .
By the way, during the last war some people i know were hanging out in pubs drinking and having fun in Broumana, while other Lebanese were being massacred!

[Shei5 Sa3d]

Originally Posted by Punishment27light

Are you freaking kiddin' me with this??

The more loans policy?

------------------------------------------------------------

As for the criticism; we need to stop viewing our allies as a burden, such as HA, SSNP, others. Many of the majority's (it still hearts when I say it) used our allies against us, and many of our 'working force' caved in for that strategy.

it is not bad economic policy......how come the europian countries & US & others,agree to help lebanon according to this policy if it was bad!!..we should apply it first & see its results..then judge it if it was wrong or beneficial!!

[BEAST]

Originally Posted by zodiac

You guys are giving some really convincing justifications about what happened yesterday and let me say that i really appreciate your courage in this self critisme but allow me to add some points that i dont know why you are still not admitting it!

- EVERYTHING RELATED TO SYRIA! did u really thoought that when Aoun said that all our problems with syria are over.. the people specially christians will believe him this easily and turn the page to their prisonners, to their martyrs etc..

- was it a good move to visit syria with NO positive results coming out from it!

- was it wise to attack, France, USA, the west and talk about Syria and IRan as the "freedom" strongholds in the world?

- Day and night attacks on the Church, historical christian figures etc?

- Sleiman Frangieh claiming 3 days before the elections that "we are proudly iranian syrians"!

- SSNP, Baath, Mrad, Hardan.. are good guys now!! thats what u have been preaching about the last 4 years!

etc..

Yalla halla2 kell wa7ad 3endo mouwwel bi raso baddo yeje yghanni 3al forum

[leb-wi-noss]

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

So the results are out, and the opposition did not get the majority it was hoping. Hard luck. I know many are accusing money, corruption, intimidation, expats, etc. but enough with the finger pointing, and time to take a look internally and see what went wrong. I am just throwing thoughts for discussion here, this is NOT an exhaustive and detailed analysis of the results... just thoughts for discussion and consideration:

It's great to read, since the results came out, some posts trying to analyze calmly what happened, using reasoning and self control.

I agree with some of what you said Loubnanito. But in your analysis, you used a frame that appears that you are practicing self criticism, but the details of your analysis, showing that you will never drop the "I'm always right and the rest are wrong" attitude. When I talk to an FPMer, I feel always like talking to an SSNPer with different ideology. SSNP uses the same approach in dealing with others, what we believe in is the ultimate truth, and Antoun Saadeh is God's boss. I'm saying this with no sarcasm whatsoever, it's a shame that a party like FPM to end like SSNP, if you people don't change your way in dealing with others.

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL: - Obviously the majority are not that excited about change, and are ok living with the existing class of politicians. That's what the polls show. Not to say people don't want change, a big portion of the population wants change, but it seems the majority might have other priorities for now, like survival and benefits that might be coming from the very same corrupt politicians. Keep in mind, the Lebanese generally think as individuals and not as a community.

For example here, nothing has changed in your speech. Change, corruption, Feudalism, ....
So we are going nowhere. I'm sure you (as FPMer) always try to find excuses and illogical explanations to what I'm going say, but this is what the other side, who didn't give you their votes, are seeing: It's hard to convince people that you are against corruption when you attack Hariri and you don't dare to point a finger towards Berri, Franjieh, Skaff, Murr (in the last 3 years). It's pathetic to attack feudalism and you are allied with Skaf, It's a bit hypocrite to attack "Political Families", while you started building one and allying with Franjieh, Skaf and have Kazen, Zwein on your lists.

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

- There is obviously a discontent with the HA issue, and that's another reality. Call it the majority's scare tactics, call it the US pressure, call it the Batrak... it doesn't matter, the majority is not dying to defend HA's weapons.

When an FPMer tries to defend HA, it shows with no doubt, that he/she himself/herself is not even convinced with what he/she is saying. The problem is that HA proves day after day, that he deals with superiority with every Lebanese.
One day before the elections Qassem or Raad said that June 7th is going to be a referendum on the HA weapons. Hours after the results, HA is declaring weapons are not negotiable.
That makes each one who didn’t vote to FPM, asks what FPM is doing to prove that they are not blindly defending and protecting the weapons of HA?
The majority of the Lebanese, with no Kanaan law this time, clearly voted against the weapons of HA, are you going to meet them halfway, or you are going to support the weapons issue is not negotiable?

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

- Another reality is that the majority of people are not ready yet to fight feudalism. Our traditional system that is based on family names, and sheikhs and clans is not that bad after all for the majority of people, and many in fact still cherish this and consider it an integral party of our society (just like the monarchy in the UK, but with more political and economical powers). And because of that, many get offended when the "clan" leaders are insulted or fought by reformists.

Although I agree with what you said, but trust me, some people did vote against you because they found that you are preaching about something and doing the opposite. How can you convince people with something, if you are not practicing it?

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

AT THE FPM LEVEL
Overconfidence
- a serious disease. FPM and the C&R in fact increased their size in this round of elections, but everyone feels they lost, why? because of expectations and overconfidence. "C&R will be the biggest bloc in Lebanese history", "we're getting the majority for sure", "we're gonna teach them a lesson", "madmoune", "beljaybe", "we are not dying to give them the 1/3", "we are going to throw them all in jails", etc.

100% right.
I mentioned it in this forum many times. Over confidence is a killer.

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

Principles vs. Reality - The majority of people care about their jobs, care about zeft (yep, they do), care about getting that permit stuck in some government office, care about individual benefits, and most importantly care about the "today", not the "future". The war made us care about today, survival, "bokra? alla byeb3at". People don't invest in retirement savings for a reason. FPM is not perceived as being a party that is in touch with this "lebanese" reality, it is a party of "principles". Most of its statements is about bashing the corrupt class of politicians, about Middle East politics, about what Lebanon "should be", basically about a .... dream. People care more about "services", and they care about getting them at any price. Some FPMers say we won't drop our principles for any reason. But you did. FPM is supposed to be a very secular party, but GA recognized that sticking to this principle will make him a "Najah Wakim", so he adopted a "reality", and that is people do listen when you talk about sectarian rights (CHristian rights). That's ok if you want to use this to get to power and THEN implement your principles (that's unforuntately politics), but it seems that wasn't enough. FPM MP's should be more in touch with reality, on the ground, and focus on what people care about in their every day life. Why do you think they vote for Murr, for his principles? or program?

FPM since 2005 played politics the Lebanese way with excellence. But everyone was attacking FPM, because they were the only party preaching about principles and practicing the opposite.
Attacking Zeft distribution, and their fight, when forming the new government, was to get the ministries of services.

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

Communications - there is definitely a problem there. Every statement made by FPM or GA, rightly or wrongly, was faced by a barrage of criticism, and that's normal in politics, that's why politicians and parties hire professional communications teams to deal with that. While the other politicians have succeeded without hiring anyone (probably because people got used to their political language), a "new" language in politics needed some sharpening. Saying the truth as it is and saying whatever we have in mind is a recipe for failure in politics. The comment about the accidental killing of an Army officer in the South angered many people, mainly in Batroun (and don't pin it only on the fact that his mother is pro-Harb). Defending HA so fiercely backfired. You could support HA without being perceived as blindly following them, even if that wasn't your intent and you were honestly supporting them. It did backfire. "Baddna nem7e el okta3" is a negative statement; how about a positive spin on it "we want to encourage the new generation and the average person to become more involved", something like that (i'm not an expert). One can fight the weaknesses in society without declaring wars on all of them, sometimes you can fight them indirectly.

Add to that the character of the FPM leader that plays a great role in convincing people. The reaction of Michel Aoun while he was voting in front of the media, was not acceptable for a leader.
Add to that, Leaders of parties that bringing change to our political system, should make a speech as soon as the results are announced, and make a speech whether they won or lost the elections.

Strategy - FPM had its own political strategy/approach, and it seems it wasn't that appealing. A head-on strategy based on "we stick to our principles, we're bullies, and everyone will follow". Well it didn't work. Berri is HA's closest ally, he is accused of harboring thugs who were at the heart of the May 7 events last year, and yet he manages to meet with Hariri, sweet talks Jumblatt, and guess what... they will reelect him as a Speaker. Lessons learned? [/quote]

Totally agree.

Originally Posted by loubnaniTO

Internal Organization - The adversaries managed and succeeded in tarnishing GA's image in the minds of MANY lebanese, whether we like to admit it or not. MANY Lebanese people now hate GA more than they hate HA, Iran and Israel put together. But that's ok. Within FPM, there is only GA. No matter how much we'd like to deny it, it is a one-man party. If, God forbids, something happens to him today, FPM might become either "FPMs" or another Ketle watanye. If someone doesn't like GA for any reason (rightly or wrongly), this means they don't like FPM. Which shouldn't be the case. It is time to restructure FPM, make it a real democratic institution, with a focus on this institution rather than a focus on one man. I know GA said he will do this right after the elections, I hope the loss in the elections will not change this. Once again, those are just thoughts for discussion, and not purely a criticism of FPM or an exhaustive list of reasons why the opposition did not win the elections.

Chapeau bas!

[loubnaniTO]

Originally Posted by BEAST

Yalla halla2 kell wa7ad 3endo mouwwel bi raso baddo yeje yghanni 3al forum

True.

This is not a thread to just vent and bash FPM and dig out every single little mistake you think they made. All the parties are making mistakes, but in politics there are strategies and tactics that parties should adopt in order to gain popularity and gain power, so that they would implement their programs. FPM wasn't able to do that and fell short of reaching power yesterday, so the focus on what went wrong, what went REALLY wrong that did not allow FPM to reach for the wider base that it was looking for.

So please let's not talk about GA's shirt that was wrinkled and his meeting with SHN and his visit to Syria. The problems are deeper than that and need serious consideration.

[Tayyar Keserwen]

Btw, i truely hope that we learn NOT TO RELY ON POLLS ANYMORE :)

Regards

[KingNothing]

Originally Posted by spacecreature

It's funny you say that, as if you didn't know the nature of Israel. Do you think FPM enjoys wars?? It was actually trying to find a solution to a problem not creating it. So it is unfair for you to say that..Anyway I have noticed that most Lebanese (I am hoping you are not like that!) only care for things that affect them directly and personally. Maybe if you lived in the south, had your land occupied for a few centuries or bombed down, killing your family on the way, then maybe you will have a different opinion .
By the way, during the last war some people i know were hanging out in pubs drinking and having fun in Broumana, while other Lebanese were being massacred!

All Lebanese have been hurt by Israel, Syria, Palestinians and other fellow Lebanese. I have been personally hurt by both LF and Palestinians much more than Syria or Israel, I was displaced by them and lost family members because of them. However, I chose to forgive and forget. You either forgive everyone or you forgive no one space creature.

5 Years ago, HA was the devil himself for your party and GMA himself. I was in DC in person when he was witnessing for the Syria accountability act and I was against it. I was watching that famous interview with Pat Robertson and it broke my heart. So don't give me this cliché lecture about resistance and blablabla because I honestly, truly do not buy it!!!!!

[agnostic]

One day before the elections Qassem or Raad said that June 7th is going to be a referendum on the HA weapons.

wrong. HA has always said the opposite.

[ecce homo]

Originally Posted by Tayyar Keserwen

Btw, i truely hope that we learn NOT TO RELY ON POLLS ANYMORE :)

Regards

The polls never took in consideration people comming from abroad.

[kmarthe]

Originally Posted by Shei5 Sa3d

it is not bad economic policy......how come the europian countries & US & others,agree to help lebanon according to this policy if it was bad!!..we should apply it first & see its results..then judge it if it was wrong or beneficial!!

The whole world is "helping" Lebanon because they want to buy the TAWTIN of the Palestinians !!! After all these years you did not see this, these countries only care for their interets and the interests of Israel !!! You and all of us do not count for them, otherwise, these countries could have helped us get rid from Syria in 1990 if they really like us. Ba3dein, aren't 17 years enough to see that your economic policy is a complete failure ? Were you able to provide a budget for the last three years ??