Lebanon's solution is an interim Federal State

[Ya-Shawish]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

federalism have nothing to do with seperatism
it's a solution to organise our internal differences - that are huge
we are a group of communities just like belgium or switzerland - your dreams of secularism are unfortunately not realistic - lebanese think live and act in a secterian way - it's inbedded in the culture and you can never change this !! even using dictatorships (check turkey, iraq, etc...)
a certain form of federalism should be found where each community elect their MPs and take care of its internal issues and development.
UAE is the example to follow - it works perfectly -
and guess what they all love their country deeply - our opposite....
cheers

I live in Canada and I have been following closely Canadian politics since I came here. I vote in Federal, Provincial and Municipal elections, so I know how to distinguish between the two thank you very much!

What I was implying to Joe is that he is seeking is separation and not federalism because he knows that it doesn’t' work in Lebanon. So both of you stop the baloney and call a spade a spade ;)

[Ya-Shawish]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

if the central -federal goverment takes care of 30% of the problems (70% going to the federations)- the time and effort to form it will be 4 times less the current ...
thank you and cheers

Ok fine, let's agree on this point and discuss about ways to form the central government. How many ministers for Christians, how many for Muslims? Who gets the ministry of foreign affair? Internal affairs. Oh while we're at it let's talk about the constitution of the federal country...
You see brother, it is not what you want to implement it's rather how to implement it without causing more political an ethnical strife...

[Dry Ice]

ويل لأمة مقسمة إلى أجزاء، وكل جزء يحسب نفسه فيها أمة
- جبران خليل جبران

[teshesh]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

1-bcharre, deir el ahmar and zahleh are adjacent to the mountain - all other can be exclave/enclave - geographic continuity and size is not an issue - check switzerland / UAE/ Belgium/ austria/ etc...
2-like their current status - anyway even with the 1960 law they don't elect their MP's!! same goes for the opposite
3-A nice hill in the north ! negligeable
4-let the chi3a area wage war against israel ....
5-this is the main problem contrast will appear - because despite years of being deprived of state funds they remain the best and by far - people make countries not money and not arab investors
6-christian villages are concentrated along the same axis in chouf - it could be a very nice enclave if jumbi agrees that its inhabitants return of course
cheers

man, your proposals are so realistic and very possible to implement!

federalism = ethnic cleansing...
without ethnically based massacres and displacing, federalism is inapplicable and meaningless...
i'll give you an example:
shiia living in the heart of the christians area that you want to see as a independent entity. who can move them out of their houses?
they gonna stay and they will become numerically superior in few years... then what?
anyways, i will be happy as long as fascists in this country are concentrated on projects like "federalism" or "independent christian canton"... let them concentrate their harm and effort on things that will never happen.

[Armenian]

Originally Posted by MockingBird

if the central -federal goverment takes care of 30% of the problems (70% going to the federations)- the time and effort to form it will be 4 times less the current ...
thank you and cheers

I don't know if you live in a federal country, but most of the major problems of the COUNTRY is solved by the federal government. This government owns the bridges, parks, roads, major incomes etc etc...

In most federal countries, this federal government is more important than government of each state... The PM and President of this government will represent the country everywhere...

Now think about it, The federal PM of this country of yours, what sect he will have? He will be Sunni? Shi3a? Christian? etc etc???

What about the president?
What about the ministers?

The country you're talking about will have exactly the same problems Lebanon has now, adding to it more and more complications...

It will solve nothing...

Thank you!!

[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by teshesh

let them concentrate their harm and effort on things that will never happen.

It has already happened a long time ago and is happening every day. You are living sectarian federalism today. You are just not willing to admit it.

[MockingBird]

Originally Posted by Genius

if the lebanese are sick, dividing them in cantons will not remove the disease.

What you need ya Aflaton is to open up the borders and EDUCATE the people on democracy and secularism.

Instead of healing, federalism will add more hatred !!

just a question , what happens if one converts ?? lol he has to move states ??

States based on sects .... SICK

ok then we can deduce that swiss , germans and americans are a bunch of backward thinking people. they are SICK because they apply federalism.
you think they did it for fun or to organise their difference?????
federalism have nothing to do with education. it will add competition to do better. it will add a relaxing attitiude between communities. because they will not feel in danger!
if one converts we can get him an immigration to canada!!!
states based on community is the solution!! it happened sect and community are the same in this part of the world..
by the way the christian community is composed of several sects...

[Amirkani]

I am all for federalism... but not if it's based on religious sects.

I would support a federal system based on sex.

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[joseph_lubnan]

Originally Posted by Amirkani

I am all for federalism... but not if it's based on religious sects.

I would support a federal system based on sex.

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Saudi Arabia already beat you to that one :)
Except they separated the women by covering them up in black, and keeping them in houses.

[Ya-Shawish]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

It has already happened a long time ago and is happening every day. You are living sectarian federalism today. You are just not willing to admit it.

Wrong! Federalism does not apply in the current context namely because of the lack on institutions and the constitutions that define the states or the entities. What the country is living is tribal and ethnic division. You're lack of knowledge about federalism is worse than I thought, although surprising because you live in the states!!

By the way; I’m still waiting for you to give me a plausible theory about how to form a central government!