Lebanon's solution is an interim Federal State

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by elador

1- what happens when sunnis and shiaas started bying lands in the christian areas and vice versa will they be allowed to move there? what if one day they outnumber the original residents?
2- who rules the christian ares? maronites? Orthodox? catolics? kelden? armenians...? FPM? LF? Kataeb... (dont dare answer by elections)
3- cities like Jezzine will be with sunni saida? or shia's south or Mountain's druze?
4- what about Zahleh? West Beka's Sunnis or Baalbek's Shias?
5- Bcharreh? with tripoli or with baalbeck
6- how will the sunni saida connect with sunni tripoli?
7- how will baalbek connect with bent jbeil?

Now what is easier? to find solutions to all this or to be all lebanese living with each other as lebanese loyal only to our country?

1- that is the beauty of federalism, christian can restrict land selling in their areas. Whoch is no possible under current system or FPM beloved secular system
2-The christian part will be 100% secular (no difference between christtian sects)
3-Jezzine will be a part of the christian part, at least until most christians move out
4-Make a road from sannine to zahlé
5-Do you even know geography ? What is the problem of Bcharré ? Bcharré/zgarta/coura/batroun are directly attached to jbeil/kesserouan
6/7 by car. There are no borders in a federal state

[Dalzi]

The christian part will be 100% secular (no difference between christtian sects)

This NEEDS highlighting Where's 4U?

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by Ya-Shawish

Ma into bit7ouro wo bitdouro la terja3o lal federalism.

Ah!!! You think you know what federalism is???

Ya habibe, federalism doesn’t work. On the contrary federalism is a recipe for disaster. Besides if you know what federalism is you wouldn’t be calling for it.

1-For federalism to work you need states with sovereign governing bodies sharing power with a central government. This means that people will have to elect two government, one national and central. Although electing a national state is relatively easy electing a central one will be a totally different story. How would you form the central government? Based on what criteria? Do you equally share power on the federation level? If yes what is preventing you doing the sharing power now? Ma a national unity government we can’t come up with let alone a central government.

2-Suppose that we succeeded in implementing federalism, which sound ridiculous and absurd for a small country like Lebanon at best, how do you make sure that the countries’ resources are fairly shared among all the Lebanese. Suppose that a nice oil well was discovered in, let’s say, kasslik area don’t you think that this gives an unfair advantage to the Christian state? What’s the guaranty that the other states won’t object to this and won’t ask for their share of the pie? What share are you willing to give if you should accept sharing? We are fighting over a single minister; imagine what it would be when the stakes are higher, like oil.

3-Take the weapons aside, but Hezbollah is being a state within a state, which you are against, yet you are calling to implement the very same concept?

Delusional at best, that's what the LF and Kataeb are...

1- electing central government ? Any solution will be better than how we do it today, plus, w'll have a first layer of security
The federal govenment can't impose hollidays orban civi mariage, or force bkérké's people to accept a mosque
2- See UAE. We are not reinventing the wheel
3- Let HA have wepons in his part, i dont care, if he doesnt bring them to my part

[Mar1K]

Federalism is not a solutions that can be implemented, here's why:

1- Jbeil, Jezzine, Jabal Me7sin, So7mor (and surroundings), Saida, etc... Are all minority areas within their surrounding or has minorities within.
2- After the civil war ended, all development has been focused in Down Town beirut which is mostly owned by Solidere (mostly sunni with some Boustani contribution and co)
3- All Christian areas were well off before the war, they are not doing bad now
4- All Shiite areas have been deprived historically and untill now

If Federalism is implemented, It will only worsen the situation for the south and baalbak and give Beirut more and more power.

I don't think it will happen, at least not anytime soon.

[theMightyRedV]

Walla the day Lebanon becomes a federal state it will see nothing but blood.

I seriously cant comprehend how anyone who is true to their Lebanese heritage culture would push for a nation that is so large in the heart and mind and is so small in size to be split further based on sect.

3an jad, how sad. They want to do this everywhere in the middle east. From Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Syria, Lebanon...

...meanwhile the global zionist agenda of the new middle east and the HQ theyre establishing for the devil who rules them clicks into higher gear.

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

I want a secular democracy as well, but both you and I know that the population is still not ready and wont be ready for another 200 years, maybe more. What do you want the people to do in the interim? live in this stupid dysfunctional country and system. an interim solution is needed, and organized federalism or partition allows the divided entities to evolve for "200 years" in a the way they chose... Once the population is ready maybe each entity will adopt secular democracy on its own after which some form of reunification can be discussed.

Stop for a while, clear your mind and think. You will discover that what I am saying isn't much different than what you are saying.

You all need to understand
A secular state is a step in the direction of an islamic state.
It wont stop mosques in bkérké, or sunni transfer to zahlé

Man lam ya7koum bima anzala allaha
fa oula2ika hom alkafiroun

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by ecce homo

With the right people in power a secular democracy is not far away. The problem in Lebanon has been its leadership, both political and religious.

With your answer above, you just confirmed what I wrote to you earlier.

BIG MISTAKE
Its not the leadership that can make secularism succeed
it is the mentality of the people

Good luck with that

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by Armenian

Dear Joseph,

We are not able to form ONE government now, so you are suggesting a system that has 5 Governments including a government similar to the one we are trying to form now??

Thank you!!

I beg to disagree
I dont care about other states
In the christian state, you FPMERs and allies say you have a majority
we'll let you form the government
Happy ?
You can even put GMA president, Gebran PM, and Alain speaker

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by Ya-Shawish

I live in Canada and I have been following closely Canadian politics since I came here. I vote in Federal, Provincial and Municipal elections, so I know how to distinguish between the two thank you very much!

What I was implying to Joe is that he is seeking is separation and not federalism because he knows that it doesn’t' work in Lebanon. So both of you stop the baloney and call a spade a spade ;)

What we want is autonomy
to make our own laws and rules
decide if we want civil mariage, where to build mosques or churches, refuse relocation to our areas

call it federalism, partition, spade, hear or diamond, i realy dont care

[e.kid]

Originally Posted by Ya-Shawish

Ok fine, let's agree on this point and discuss about ways to form the central government. How many ministers for Christians, how many for Muslims? Who gets the ministry of foreign affair? Internal affairs. Oh while we're at it let's talk about the constitution of the federal country...
You see brother, it is not what you want to implement it's rather how to implement it without causing more political an ethnical strife...

The only real issue is foreign politics
there will be a presidential commitee with 3 Muslims and 3 christians to take care of federal problems
I think bosnia has something like this
but as MB said UAE is a good example
Please tell us what problem you see in importing the UAE model