Lebanon's solution is an interim Federal State

[joseph_lubnan]

Lebanon as a country still needs to be built. It doesn't exist yet. It cant be built with weapons floating around. The first step to building together is removing all the weapons. ALL OF THEM. Otherwise no real discussions, reforms, or even a popular peaceful uprising, are possible.

If the people are not ready to relinquish their weapons first and discuss a common country, then multiple states and organized federation are needed. Today we have an ill-organized sectarian federation anyway, organizing it may help us progress individually as separate states to a point where we are civilly mature enough to discuss reunification at some point in the future.

Clearly defined and organized federalism can't be worse than the adhoc ill-organized tribal sectarian federalism that we have today anyway. Let every major sect have its state in a federally organized Lebanon. Let every major sect have its own state and geographical region of oversight. Its own president, parliament and its own ministers, its own police force and its own army. Heck if Hezbollah wants an Islamic state they can go for it, if Hariri want a mini Saudi more power to him and so on...

What you fail to realize is that your leaders GMA and Nasrallah are fine with a form of federalism anyway given their actions and approach to politics, except they are doing so within the confines of the ill-organized sectarian federalism that we already have. Lets be honest with ourselves and organize it under UN oversight.

Let me hear where and why you differ.

[Dry Ice]

Federalism better than Wilayat al Faqih.

[Shuyu3i]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Lebanon as a country still needs to be built. It doesn't exist yet. It cant be built with weapons floating around. The first step to building together is removing all the weapons. ALL OF THEM. Otherwise no real discussions, reforms, or even a popular peaceful uprising, are possible.

If the people are not ready to relinquish their weapons first and discuss a common country, then multiple states and organized federation are needed. Today we have an ill-organized sectarian federation anyway, organizing it may help us progress individually as separate states to a point where we are civilly mature enough to discuss reunification at some point in the future.

Clearly defined and organized federalism can't be worse than the adhoc ill-organized tribal sectarian federalism that we have today anyway. Let every major sect have its state in a federally organized Lebanon. Let every major sect have its own state and geographical region of oversight. Its own president, parliament and its own ministers, its own police force and its own army. Heck if Hezbollah wants an Islamic state they can go for it, if Hariri want a mini Saudi more power to him and so on...

What you fail to realize is that your leaders GMA and Nasrallah are fine with a form of federalism anyway given their actions and approach to politics, except they are doing so within the confines of the ill-organized sectarian federalism that we already have. Lets be honest with ourselves and organize it under UN oversight.

Let me hear where and why you differ.

What the LF and Kataeb couldn't take in war they wont take in peace.

[Rising Phoenix]

It's very easy to issue some theory about federalism. I'm not saying that it couldn't represent a solution. But by issuing such ideas, many crucial question arise:

1. what would be the status of cities and villages like: Bcharreh, Jezzine, Deir el Ahmar, Qa3, Kobeiyat, Zahleh, Qob Elias, Marje3youn, Deir el Kamar...?
2. What would be the status of christians living in predominant Muslim areas
3. what would be the status of Jabal Mohssen
4. How do you see Lebanon's foreign policy?
5. What would be the economical status of a Christian area surrounded geographically by Muslim areas and countries
6. How could you reach an agreement, as a Christian, with walid joumblatt in the mountain?

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix

1. what would be the status of cities and villages like: Bcharreh, Jezzine, Deir el Ahmar, Qa3, Kobeiyat, Zahleh, Qob Elias, Marje3youn, Deir el Kamar...?

They will be free cities with helipads ensuring in/out transport.

btw, why did you include Bsharre, Deir el Ahmar and Zahle to that list?

Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix

2. What would be the status of christians living in predominant Muslim areas

They would have the choice to live under:

1. Wahhabism
2. Jumblatism
3. Wilayat Faqih

or

4. Join the Christian lands

Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix

3. what would be the status of Jabal Mohssen

Renamed to Free Mount with a helipad.

Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix

4. How do you see Lebanon's foreign policy?

Positive neutralism (re: the great thinker Dr. Fouad Abi Nader)

Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix

5. What would be the economical status of a Christian arean surrounded geographically by Muslim areas and countries

Check Maameltein.

Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix

6. How could you reach an agreement, as a Christian, with walid joumblatt in the mountain?

You can't, history proved that.

Thanks

[Rising Phoenix]

Thank you DI...GO FEDERALISM! GO!

[Salome]

Since this federalism would be based on simply sectarian division, it cant be viable.
Look at the Swiss, they started to build a successful country after they got rid of their bloody sectarian civil wars, and they decided to integrate into a common culture, they made their varieties work together, they learned how to cooperate.

So what are we discussing here?

ps. just to imagine a common foreign policy of such a sectarian federalism makes me wonder

[elador]

Originally Posted by joseph_lubnan

Lebanon as a country still needs to be built. It doesn't exist yet. It cant be built with weapons floating around. The first step to building together is removing all the weapons. ALL OF THEM. Otherwise no real discussions, reforms, or even a popular peaceful uprising, are possible.

If the people are not ready to relinquish their weapons first and discuss a common country, then multiple states and organized federation are needed. Today we have an ill-organized sectarian federation anyway, organizing it may help us progress individually as separate states to a point where we are civilly mature enough to discuss reunification at some point in the future.

Clearly defined and organized federalism can't be worse than the adhoc ill-organized tribal sectarian federalism that we have today anyway. Let every major sect have its state in a federally organized Lebanon. Let every major sect have its own state and geographical region of oversight. Its own president, parliament and its own ministers, its own police force and its own army. Heck if Hezbollah wants an Islamic state they can go for it, if Hariri want a mini Saudi more power to him and so on...

What you fail to realize is that your leaders GMA and Nasrallah are fine with a form of federalism anyway given their actions and approach to politics, except they are doing so within the confines of the ill-organized sectarian federalism that we already have. Lets be honest with ourselves and organize it under UN oversight.

Let me hear where and why you differ.

1- what happens when sunnis and shiaas started bying lands in the christian areas and vice versa will they be allowed to move there? what if one day they outnumber the original residents?
2- who rules the christian ares? maronites? Orthodox? catolics? kelden? armenians...? FPM? LF? Kataeb... (dont dare answer by elections)
3- cities like Jezzine will be with sunni saida? or shia's south or Mountain's druze?
4- what about Zahleh? West Beka's Sunnis or Baalbek's Shias?
5- Bcharreh? with tripoli or with baalbeck
6- how will the sunni saida connect with sunni tripoli?
7- how will baalbek connect with bent jbeil?

Now what is easier? to find solutions to all this or to be all lebanese living with each other as lebanese loyal only to our country?

[Rising Phoenix]

Scr*w all the solutions (Federalism, confederalism, secularism, democracy, consensual democracy etc...)

I propose that we get Saddam's DNA and clone him in Lebanon...we would enjoy at least 30 years of stability...

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by elador

1- what happens when sunnis and shiaas started bying lands in the christian areas and vice versa will they be allowed to move there? what if one day they outnumber the original residents?

They will be allowed to move there but will have to respect the Christian way of living.

Originally Posted by elador

2- who rules the christian ares? maronites? Orthodox? catolics? kelden? armenians...? FPM? LF? Kataeb... (dont dare answer by elections)

The Patriarch

Originally Posted by elador

3- cities like Jezzine will be with sunni saida? or shia's south or Mountain's druze?
4- what about Zahleh? West Beka's Sunnis or Baalbek's Shias?
5- Bcharreh? with tripoli or with baalbeck

Example

Free City of Danzig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by elador

6- how will the sunni saida connect with sunni tripoli?

The SSH (Sunni Super Highway) will transport Sunnis from their place of residence in Saida to their stronghold in Tripoli.

Originally Posted by elador

7- how will baalbek connect with bent jbeil?

By a tunnel, as it is currently suspected.

Originally Posted by elador

Now what is easier? to find solutions to all this or to be all lebanese living with each other as lebanese loyal only to our country?

You just have to be creative.