Lebanon's identity

[NewB]

Originally Posted by syrian

Look, im not an SSNPer, but the truth is, the middle east is one entity when it comes to ancient civilizations and culture (canaanites, pheonicians, arameans, syriacs, etc...)

i hate to be called an arab only because i speak arabic... i dont look like an arab, i dont think like an arab, i dont dress like an arab, i dont live like an arab... AND i dont have the same heritage as an arab... i want to be called syrian, or middle eastern, and i want people of the middle east to be called the same... i dont care about the political borders, all i care about is our heritage which defines our identity...

the arabs came here less than 1400 years ago, but that doesnt make me one... this is the land of canaan and aram, this is where trade and sciences flourished... this land hosts the most ancient cities of the world, why should we erase all that glory by adopting a foreign identity - the arabic identity??

arabs have their land... their civilization and culture are so different... they never had science, but superstition instead... they never had cities, but tribal gatherings...

we speak arabic, so what? brazil speaks portugese because of the occupation, but brazilians are not called portugese...

So you're saying when الغساسنة‎ (Christian Arab tribes) came to Syria and Lebanon, they never mixed their blood with Canaanites ? That was an ancient civilization and its long gone, it was replaced by different tribes. The Arab tribes started coming in the second and third century and inhabited that land. Its funny how you think tribes and civilizations never change. Phoenicians, then Canaanites then a few others then Arabs. You accept all of them except for Arab because you think they are Muslim, while in fact they started off as Christians.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by elhakeem2jours

can you tell me what is arab culture if it's not closely linked to islamic culture?

The Arabs of some countries are living the pre-Islamic culture. "3asr ljahiliyyah" resurrected. Their culture is not Islamic at all.

can you tell me what was life in arab countries life like before the prophet muhammad revolutionized and united the arabs and turned them all into muslims?

He didn't turn the Arabs into Muslims. The Pagans adopted the new religion along with some of the Arab Jews and Christians while the rest were Jews and Christians. You've never heard of Khaybar? Or the Christian tribes of Arabia?

lebanese culture as we know it survived past phoenicians, take a look at byblos jbeil where one of the older mosques in the world which was built by the ottomans was erected right near the heritage ruins, then walk up the street to st john the baptist church, it was there 400 years before that ottoman mosque...

There was no such thing as Lebanese back then and the land was open. Abraham was born in KSA of today and he's the father of Israel, so shall we consider them all Arabs? You cannot define Arab. Mohamad himself is Arabized, not from the original Arab tribes of that area. He is rather the descendant of Ishmael, so all are the same sourse. How far back do we go? The prophet's ancestros before Ishmael didn't speak Arabic. It's a language that developed from the older ones and was adopted by people in that region. They later moved around and took the language with them replacing the dying languages. Languages like creatures, live and die with the years.

it wasn't until that mosque was built that arab culture entered lebanon, the reason? arab culture arrived with islam, and islam arrived with the arab. lebanon culture was there long before the arab culture arrived...

lol, how did you manage to link an "Ottoman" mosque with the "Arab" culture and the entering of Islam? Islam didn't enter "Bilad Al Sham" (not Lebanon) with the "turks". Islam has been in that region since it was revealed. The prophet's granddaughter is burried in Syria along with many others. The Ottoman empire was not an Islamic one. It was not on a religious quest . Ahmad Basha butchered the Muslims. Remember too that the crusade brought Christianity (with a sword) after Islam. They forced the Muslims out of the Lebanese mountains in case you didn't know.

i am interested to know what was arab culture before the prophet created islam and united the arab peoples, and how it differs as you say it does.

The Arabs are living what the prophet came to fight. He didn't unite them at all, they've always been divided.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by NewB

So you're saying when الغساسنة‎ (Christian Arab tribes) came to Syria and Lebanon, they never mixed their blood with Canaanites ? That was an ancient civilization and its long gone, it was replaced by different tribes. The Arab tribes started coming in the second and third century and inhabited that land. Its funny how you think tribes and civilizations never change. Phoenicians, then Canaanites then a few others then Arabs. You accept all of them except for Arab because you think they are Muslim, while in fact they started off as Christians.

It's ridiculous! Arab = Muslim is a political term, nothing more nothing less. What happened to the Arab Jews? They're very famous! :D And the Christians of course! Did Christianity stop in our areas? What happened to the term "conversion" and how many people changed religions and are still changing every single day? How can you link identity to religion when religion is something you can choose? Christianity and Judaism were alive and kicking in Arabia during the prophet's time. They all lived in the same neighbourhoods. Alghassana is only one of many huge Christian Arab tribes. You also have a lot of Arabic Christian family names like "Abdelmasee7" for example. You can never tell what religion your ancestors followed unless you can trace back your family tree with complete accuracy.

And of course, Arabic is a beautiful rich language. It's a tressure.

[hiptanaka]

Originally Posted by elhakeem2jours

well said syrian, and i want to be called lebanese because we are a rare people native in the region and to our land, with our own culture that survived several islamic conquests, our own heritage, our own food, our own music, our own style, our own ingenuity around the world, our own history....

let the arabs call themselves arabs, if u feel like an arab-- by all means call yourself that! do you hear americans call themselves whites before americans? nah, calling yourself arab means you see thru the borders of the middle east and all peoples as one people. in most cases arab nationalism is closely linked with islamism (arab culture = islamic culture, created by mohammad)

i have no problem with arabs, but i do have a problem with those who feel the urge to tell others what they are.

i am lebanese, and only lebanese.....if u consider lebanese arabs, thats your choice, i am lebanese, nothing more and nothing less

arabs were around far before Islam came. you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by elhakeem2jours

well said syrian, and i want to be called lebanese because we are a rare people native in the region and to our land, with our own culture that survived several islamic conquests, our own heritage, our own food, our own music, our own style, our own ingenuity around the world, our own history....

let the arabs call themselves arabs, if u feel like an arab-- by all means call yourself that! do you hear americans call themselves whites before americans? nah, calling yourself arab means you see thru the borders of the middle east and all peoples as one people. in most cases arab nationalism is closely linked with islamism (arab culture = islamic culture, created by mohammad)

i have no problem with arabs, but i do have a problem with those who feel the urge to tell others what they are.

i am lebanese, and only lebanese.....if u consider lebanese arabs, thats your choice, i am lebanese, nothing more and nothing less

Actually no it's not just our choice, it's in the lebanese institution, it's something official. The official language is Arabic, the people speak arabic, despite the fact that some are bi or even trilingual. We share the rest of the Arabic countries history, language, and Enemy. Our culture is not the same, but we have similarities. And this difference in the culture and this Uniqueness that you've mentioned arent sufficeint to diverge Lebanon from its Identity.

So no Lebanon doesn't suffer an Identity crisis. And i'm not telling you what you are, you are free to distinct yourself from this Identity but that doesnt change anything.

[TripolySunni]

For god's Sake check your Lebanese army's Webpage for Thousands of "Hints" "Tips" and "tricks".

The Lebanese army teams participated in the following championships :

- The 11th arab championship of athletics from 20/10/1999 to 24/10/1999.
- Judo arab championship from 6 to 7/11/1999.
- The first arab volley ball championship from 10/1/2000 till 15/1/2000 in Jounyeh - Lebanon.
- The arab championship in table tennis from 2/7/2000 to 7/7/2000 in Ghazir - Lebanon.

The lebanese army organised :
- The fourth military arab championship in running in beirut from 3/6/2000 till 7/6/2000.


And please Stop The lame propaganda that Islam is only for Arabs cuz some Western Morons might beleive that, and this would Slow down the spreading of our religion which is officially for all.

[Red Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Actually no it's not just our choice, it's in the lebanese institution, it's something official. The official language is Arabic, the people speak arabic, despite the fact that some are bi or even trilingual. We share the rest of the Arabic countries history, language, and Enemy. Our culture is not the same, but we have similarities. And this difference in the culture and this Uniqueness that you've mentioned arent sufficeint to diverge Lebanon from its Identity.

So no Lebanon doesn't suffer an Identity crisis. And i'm not telling you what you are, you are free to distinct yourself from this Identity but that doesnt change anything.

actually it does suffer from an identity crisis. but lebanon is arab by de facto.
long centuries of history made it so and so have the habits of its diverse and freakish ppl. (arab and freakish and suffering from an identity crisis, that’s Lebanon for u).

it's not a pristine story of lebanon being arab. and it's not 'just official'.
it's official for the government yes, but it's not a holy bible. it wasn’t that official b4 1990.
it's arab for most lebanese, not all of them.

let's not simplify things.

for me i clearly read lebanon and its history as part of the arab world.
with ‘arabic’ i refer to the close old nations around us, not ‘arab’ as only in the arab tribes of the gulf.

‘middle eastern nations’ might be also valid as a description, but no one uses that and Arabism of the 20th century reform movement made that notion inclusive. so i don’t feel the big need to say that i am more ‘middle eastern than arab’.

again, as long as by arabs I refer to the close nations that we lived with and within i have no big problem. the islamic Umayad rule in Syria is something i can be proud was next to me, so was Constantinople’s reach that went extinct. (but definitely not the Crusader occupation of these lands, nor the Turkish one)

me, i don't like it if ppl label me as 'arabic', i prefer to be labeled lebanese, but i'm reading history here, so i can change my already flexible identity a bit but i can't change the mutual identity of the country i'm living in. which is a freakish arabic identity in crisis because it’s freaking stupid.

for me, this matter isn't as simple as proclaiming our beliefs out loud about 'i am an arab' or 'i am not an arab'. it's more indepth than this.

lebanese muslims by reflex like to say ‘we are arabs’ and christians by reflex like to say ‘we are phoenicians’, while i myself by reflex tend to say ‘they are both idiots’ cuz they are mixing mythos with facts and while in reality the muslim lebanese of the coast have much more phoenician blood in their genes than the christians of Lebanon that came from the mainland of the crescent, bordering Syria, or from Syria itself be it from the east or north or south. (relative the coast)

so it’s always ironic to see muslims and christians say the bull that they tend to say about this matter with utmost certainty the way they always do hehe.

[Red Phoenix]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

For god's Sake check your Lebanese army's Webpage for Thousands of "Hints" "Tips" and "tricks".

The Lebanese army teams participated in the following championships :

- The 11th arab championship of athletics from 20/10/1999 to 24/10/1999.
- Judo arab championship from 6 to 7/11/1999.
- The first arab volley ball championship from 10/1/2000 till 15/1/2000 in Jounyeh - Lebanon.
- The arab championship in table tennis from 2/7/2000 to 7/7/2000 in Ghazir - Lebanon.

The lebanese army organised :
- The fourth military arab championship in running in beirut from 3/6/2000 till 7/6/2000.


And please Stop The lame propaganda that Islam is only for Arabs cuz some Western Morons might beleive that, and this would Slow down the spreading of our religion which is officially for all.

if the arabic reformist movement didn't fail so miserably to spread (or if it managed to escape its assassination), ppl here would be fighting over who is more arabic hehe

[Ahiram]

Lebanon is Lebanese
Lebanon is Phoenician
Lebanon is unique

Lebanon is not western, although we dress western and most of us behave western

Lebanon is not Eastern although we behave social wise as Easterns

Lebanon is not Arabic although we speak arabic because of the surrounding, bearing in mind that syriac language up to 200 years ago was still practiced in most of our villages, and most of our villages and rivers, hills churches towns have syriac or aramic names

Lebanon is unique

a recent DNA test that was performed on Lebanese samples (it was on geo Channel and a mouhadara was given at LAU three years ago) that only 16% of lebanese have arabic DNA

Cheers

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by Saladin

So no Lebanon doesn't suffer an Identity crisis. And i'm not telling you what you are, you are free to distinct yourself from this Identity but that doesnt change anything.

Oh and do they not need therapy?