Lebanese Forces Leader Continues to call for Independent Investigative Commission into ALL Civil War Crimes

[Red Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Garabet B

samir geagea is a low life criminal. if it wasnt for the murder of hariri and all the chaos he still wouldve been playing with rats in his cell.

ya, but he was in his cell in the first place becuz of harriri's arrival as PM.

so it makes sense to set him free when the rules of the game changed again.

besides, by the looks of it, he learned a lot from his cell rats and has a lot to lecture us about now.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Zero Cult

I object!

Samir Geagea is a repentant criminal.

Chou Jean Valjean el ossa?

[fidelio]

Crying real wolf will not be answered by other predators and there are no more sheep to worry about.
The man is slowly being rendered to a neutered scarecrow, so save your breath.

[Smith]

Why don't we start invistigating correctly the Halate case?

[LebanonUSA]

The 1991 Amnesty Law does not cover crimes that were referred to the Judicial Council as well as other exceptions (crimes against clergymen being one of these exceptions, though the reason they made that exception was to keep the Musa Al Sadr case alive).

And if Mar Geagea cared about justice and has repented, why doesn't he:

1. Say what crimes he did that he seeks forgiveness over
2. Ask for forgiveness from the victims or the victims' survivors one by one
3. Open up the case of the assassination of President-elect Bachir Gemayel

We are smarter than that, and General Aoun should be the first person to jump on Geagea's bandwagon and tell him "bring it on baby!", and it should include all crimes not just crimes of violence. It should include corruption, thefts, bribes, money-laundering, extortions, blackmailing, dealing with the enemy of the state, and treason.

You want to come clean, I can't think of another way to do so, and if Mar Geagea walks the walk instead of talk the talk, I will be the first one to take down the picture of General Aoun and putting a picture of Mar Geagea in his place.

(relax, it's never gonna happen it's Geagea we're talking about )

[sanfour]

Originally Posted by J.Hanna

DSG raised this issue again today. Yalla meen natreen? Who is afraid?

He is the ONLY leader to apologize for his mistakes during the war!
He is the ONLY leader to go to prison!

Everyone blames him for every crime ever committed; however, he is the ONLY leader that continues to call for a comprehensive and thorough Independent Investigative Civil War fact-finding Commission.

He is not scared of the TRUTH. He is saying bring it on.



So what are you waiting for?

he can't bluff anyone, he is calling for an investigation in ALL war
crimes because he cannot get away with the murder of Mgr. Albert Khreich.
NO DEAL. i will be happy with such investigation provided that all those
who are found guilty of WAR crimes will go to jail....NO APOLOGIES.

[sarhay]

Originally Posted by J.Hanna

DSG raised this issue again today. Yalla meen natreen? Who is afraid?

Great for SG to have self-reflection,finally! I believe his call only when he mobilizes his allies to support his endeavor in establishing this investigative panel. Personally, I prefer its members to be international members including expertise in forensic investigation, trace analysis, population genetic, etc. rather than members of the "Lebanese independent" group!

He is the ONLY leader to apologize for his mistakes during the war!

Nope! Again,this proves to me the short memory syndrome that the LF followers acquired. Haven't you heard WJ also confessing to his crimes, it is on youtube look it up!

He is the ONLY leader to go to prison!

It was not voluntarily! according to SG, he tried to pass the cup away by telling the "butler" no-thanks but it was whispers that went unheard and got to sip it for a while!.

Everyone blames him for every crime ever committed; however, he is the ONLY leader that continues to call for a comprehensive and thorough Independent Investigative Civil War fact-finding Commission.

I will take his words for it and I hope it materialize this time! I will offer my expertise if need be and ask colleague to join in this humanitarian effort. A comprehensive plan must have, as a rule-of-thumb, a genomic database to associate civil war victims with their living ones, in all Lebanese soil and water. fact-finding commission should not only roam around gathering information, but also they should substantiate those words with evidence on the ground.

He is not scared of the TRUTH. He is saying bring it on.

Are you talking about TRUTH in absolute terms or relative one, a la "LEBANESE TRUTH"?
JH, if you have the tools to contact SG, can you please inquire from him about his allies take on this proposal? can they be bravely and sincerely say with SG "Bring it on". I believe his main allies, WJ, should be very interested in this proposal once and for all, yet his support or opposition to this plan, remains to be seen.

So what are you waiting for?[/quote]
FPM, never involved itself in this business. FPM, currently, is led by an ex-army General who then barely had the time to protect his soliders, who had been calling for proper closure of civil war chapter, who has not been tainted by innocent bloods, who is waiting for you to get your act together and truly and honestly come clean to close this gruesome chapter and let the dead rest in peace and their loved ones put a closure to their misery.

[J.Hanna]

Originally Posted by X

Who is/are the "you"?

We are waiting for nothing, and for sure not waiting for Geagea to ask for an Independent Investigative Commission into ALL Civil War Crimes, we have been asking this for years.

By the way, are they allowed to go deep into the sea and search for dumped containers and check what is inside those containers?

Oh and by the way, will the investigation cover environmental crimes? such as this one: Italian Toxic Waste Still in Lebanon

One last thing, Geagea proving that he is not the only criminal will not change anything, we never said he is the only criminal.

Jumblat is alive and kicking you know....

Originally Posted by X

This is from the Green Peace website and official report of the green peace, unless of course the bitters consider them as part of the Syrian Iranian axis:



How much money did your doctor receive from "Jelly Wax" in exchange of burying 15800 barrels of toxic wastes in Keserwen and other "Christian" areas his militia were controlling?

Originally Posted by X

Min bizid?

Originally Posted by X

Living on Earth: September 11, 1998

Lebanon: Toxic Waste Dumping Ground

CURWOOD: During the chaos of Lebanon's civil war, the Middle Eastern country became a dumping ground for toxic waste. Foreign companies paid off Lebanese militia leaders for, quote, "permission," unquote, to dispose illegally of many kinds of industrial chemicals from European nations, especially from Italy and Germany. Some of these dangerous wastes have been returned to the nations that produced them. But as Reese Erlich reports from Beirut, not all of the imported toxins have been cleaned up.

(Engine and machinery sounds)

HAMDAN: What we're seeing here is big Caterpillars working in a quarry.

ERLICH: Lebanese environmentalist Fuad Hamdan looks on as a bulldozer slowly moves dirt and rock, inching closer to a spot riddled with toxic chemicals. He's a Greenpeace campaigner in Beirut.

HAMDAN: That was in the late 80s the main storage site of about 16,000 barrels of toxic waste from Italy, that were illegally imported from Italy to Lebanon at that time.

ERLICH: The quarry near Beirut once held 16,000 barrels and 20 containers of heavy metals, toxic pesticides, and other deadly chemicals. During Lebanon's civil war, Jelly Wax, an Italian company, paid a right-wing Christian militia group to store the toxics here. In 1996, companies from Germany, Canada, and Belgium, secretly delivered toxic chemicals to other parts of Lebanon. Today, Lebanon is paying the price. According to a World Bank study, toxic dumping, along with Lebanon's own sewage and toxic waste problems, has led to contamination of 70% of the country's drinking water. Wilson Rizk is a Lebanese professor of hydrology who studies water pollution.

RIZK: [Speaks in French] TRANSLATOR: A lot of places scattered all over Lebanon, especially in the mountainous areas, are contaminated with toxic wastes. When you have heavy rain and melting snow, which is often the case in the winter and autumn, you have lots of water carrying the toxics into rivers and into the groundwater as well.

ERLICH: From 1975 until 1990, the country's violent civil war meant there was no central government, let alone environmental controls. So, the toxic dumping went unhindered, with a tragic human cost. In 1987, the Lebanese Forces militia hired a family displaced by the war to guard the Schnanir Quarry. They lived on the site. The head of the family used one of the chemicals to keep off insects, and another as soap. A Franciscan nun, whose school is located less than 100 yards from the quarry, said she tried to warn him.

NUN: [Speaks in Arabic] TRANSLATOR: The man of the family was young and very healthy. We said, "You have to be careful. These chemicals may be very toxic." But the man said, "Don't worry; it's only paint." I told him he shouldn't touch it, but he kept on insisting, "It's only paint. It's not dangerous." Eventually he got cancer. He died 10 months later.

ERLICH: Pierre Malychef owns a pharmacy. He's also one of Lebanon's most respected environmental scientists. Back in 1988, the Italian chemical barrels began to bubble over and explode, so the Lebanese forces asked Mr. Malychef to test them. He alerted the public that the barrels contain toxic chemicals, and he discovered other dumping sites scattered around the country. The Lebanese Forces were not pleased. The government jailed him for a week for allegedly giving false testimony during an investigation of the dumping, but the charges were dropped. Months later, thugs who he says were paid by the Lebanese Forces severely beat him.

MALYCHEF: [Speaks in Arabic] TRANSLATOR: I was finding all this toxic material so quickly. It became a real problem for the Lebanese forces. If the government returned the toxics to Italy, then the Lebanese militias would be obliged to return a big part of the money they got for taking the toxics in the first place. This didn't make them very happy, and they retaliated against me.

ERLICH: Mr. Malychef and other environmentalists weren't intimidated. When the toxic dumping became exposed, the public was outraged. In the midst of the public outcry, the Italian government shipped the waste back to Italy after Jelly Wax refused to act. Lebanon's Minister of Environment, Akram Shouhayeb, explains.

SHOUHAYEB: [Speaks in Arabic] TRANSLATOR: We took out a huge number of toxic barrels and sent them back to Italy, so we dealt with it in a legal and logical way. These toxics entered illegally but they eventually went out legally. But the judicial file is still open for all toxic dumping cases. Investigation is still open because there may be more barrels.

ERLICH: While the investigation may still be technically open, environmentalists say nothing much is being done in practice. Only one person, a Lebanese citizen, was ever charged in connection with any of the toxic dumping cases. Others remain at large. Last year, Lebanon passed a law banning the importation of toxic chemicals. But Professor Rizk says the country needs to further strengthen its environmental laws.

RIZK: [Speaks in French] TRANSLATOR: Anyone involved in the traffic of toxic wastes should be prosecuted. Under the Basel Convention, which bans the export of toxic chemicals, everyone involved in such trafficking should be punished. Unfortunately, our local legislation isn't strong enough. We should strengthen our Lebanese laws to prevent the repetition of this kind of hideous traffic. The current Minister of Environment is full of good intentions, but he doesn't have the necessary laws to really crack down.


ERLICH: The Environment Minister admits that two sites here at the Shnanir Quarry are highly contaminated from the Italian chemicals. He says they'll only clean up one of the sites, however. Greenpeace's Fuad Hamdan doubts that they will really remediate either site.

HAMDAN: One of these days, the two spots will be rehabilitated the Lebanese way, meaning that they will be mixed with the rocks and stones and sent to construction sites to build roads or buildings, endangering, in this way, the workers.

ERLICH: Since the law banning importation of toxic chemicals was passed last year, environmentalists say there have been no new toxics delivered to Lebanon. Containers of Canadian and Belgian toxics have been waiting in the Beirut Harbor and are scheduled for shipment back to their home countries. Lebanese environmentalists say, however, that the government is doing nothing to clean up the quarries and sites where the toxics are contaminating the land and groundwater. For Living on Earth, I'm Reese Erlich in Beirut.

The topic of the thread is for an INDEPENDENT Investigation, not an AOUNIST Investigation. Thanks, but no thanks!

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

And still he does not dare call for a retrial to clean up his name.

How brave, honest, and not the least hypocritical!

of course he has, he has said on many occasions that he would have no problem with a retrial of all accusations against him - just as long as all other files are opened on everybody's past....no secrets, no one can be above the law. Either all files are opened, or all files are closed -from the 1970's to the most recent terrorists acts on May 7, 2008. This is the only way.

Originally Posted by Libnene Qu7

J. Hanna, you shouldn't have opened this Pandora's box. You should stick to placing posters of Samir Geagea with Mar Charbel in the background.

lol... u think this is a pandoras box lol, u havent seen nothing yet

[]

Originally Posted by sarhay

Great for SG to have self-reflection,finally!

SG began his self-reflection during his long prison sentence.

Originally Posted by sarhay

I believe his call only when he mobilizes his allies to support his endeavor in establishing this investigative panel.

Why? He is the Leader of the Lebanese Forces, he has his own mind, he follows no1 except for God. Many in Lebanon do not want this type of commission and this includes both from March8 and March14.

Originally Posted by sarhay

Personally, I prefer its members to be international members including expertise in forensic investigation, trace analysis, population genetic, etc. rather than members of the "Lebanese independent" group!

ofcourse!

Originally Posted by sarhay

Nope! Again,this proves to me the short memory syndrome that the LF followers acquired. Haven't you heard WJ also confessing to his crimes, it is on youtube look it up!

you are correct, my mistake.

[]

Originally Posted by sarhay

I will take his words for it and I hope it materialize this time! I will offer my expertise if need be and ask colleague to join in this humanitarian effort.

nice and "innocent" gesture, but like I said earlier - No one is interested in an Aounist Investigation, Only an INDEPENDENT Investigation. Thanks, but no thanks.

Originally Posted by sarhay

A comprehensive plan must have, as a rule-of-thumb, a genomic database to associate civil war victims with their living ones, in all Lebanese soil and water. fact-finding commission should not only roam around gathering information, but also they should substantiate those words with evidence on the ground.

correct

Originally Posted by sarhay

I believe his main allies, WJ, should be very interested in this proposal once and for all, yet his support or opposition to this plan, remains to be seen.

Ofcourse WJ would not be on board with such an idea - his hands are the dirtiest.

[vegojimbo]

Originally Posted by J.Hanna

of course he has, he has said on many occasions that he would have no problem with a retrial of all accusations against him - just as long as all other files are opened on everybody's past....no secrets, no one can be above the law. Either all files are opened, or all files are closed -from the 1970's to the most recent terrorists acts on May 7, 2008. This is the only way.

No, he never asked for a retrial. Bring me a transcript to prove me otherwise.
besides, what has the issue of cleaning up his judicial record got to do with anything other warlords have done?
If he has nothing to hide, let him not resort to the "let others open up their past as well" argument. Let him start with himself. He's innocent as he claims, so what is he waiting for?

The innocent and the righteous are always transparent, never hide behind anything or anyone, and offer no excuses and no pretexts.

[J.Hanna]

Originally Posted by vegojimbo

No, he never asked for a retrial. Bring me a transcript to prove me otherwise.
besides, what has the issue of cleaning up his judicial record got to do with anything other warlords have done?
If he has nothing to hide, let him not resort to the "let others open up their past as well" argument. Let him start with himself. He's innocent as he claims, so what is he waiting for?

The innocent and the righteous are always transparent, never hide behind anything or anyone, and offer no excuses and no pretexts.

Well i agree with you on this, that he should clear his name as well the LF's name and seek a retrial, and many LFers have this pov. However, it is a fact that the court at the time was influenced by Syrian objectives and many international human rights groups called his trial a sham and unjust, seriously flawed and politically motivated.... so why even bother for a retrial if the initial trial was a joke and was so obviously politically motivated. Also any crimes he might have committed are covered under the amnesty law, so one can understand his position regarding a retrial.


As for a transcript, I will look but dont hold your breath.